mid-age woman - part 2 (nude content)

[robert_parker]

Hi Vic

I'm not concerned about the content but having seen the whole series on the website I do think that you didn't choose the best shots to display here - I recon you could have chosen others that would have been more flattering to your model and your own skill

[vic vic]

robert - maybe u r rite that the selection i have made while uploading was a bit rush and not well thought at all..... actaully - there is another thread with part one of those photos... i didnt wanted to upload more than 3 photos as one of the moderators once asked to do so (more than 3 pics at once).

[billh]

Originally Posted by bindrar

Most of us see this at home already - next time put show younger looking people

I (quite naturally) looked in, saw the photos, then read this comment - and laughed so hard tears were coming down my face.

[vic vic]

bill... what exactly makes u laughing so much, will be glad to here the explanation....
i know ravi well well and i can understand his humour but yours is a bit not clear to me

[thomasw_]

Vic-

I do think your other work, especially your BW work, is so much more delightful than these selections. I do think you could shoot this woman nude and make her look gracious and diginified; but these images don't do that. She disgusts and repulses me. Perhaps that was intended?

I laughed at the remark Bill did, and was saddened by the images at the same time. Let me try to explain my dual reaction. The reason I chuckled at the remark Bill quotes is because of the irony in the statement; for few of us with middle-aged wives haven't seen perhaps even less desirable bodily aspects Of course the irony is that we laugh at it in spite of ourselves and our own wives. That is why I laughed.

What saddened me is in the model's expressions and the way she poses. I don't agree with a previous remark which stated that she seems so happy. I see a nervousness and a sense of self-satisfaction that is quite repulsive. I read the model as being a "wannabe" hottie. I find anything trying to be something it isn't, especially a person, is rather pathetic. In this case this woman -- who, as I said, could be made by you to look subtly delightful -- is made to look like a pathetic aging woman who would like to think she is a hottie. Since your subject can be thought of as unwilling to accept her limitations -- or if you prefer, the viewer is able to put such limitations on her because of the way she is portrayed -- she can be sadly thought of as pathetic. That is why I was saddened.

That explains my reactions.

Vic, I think you are talented photographer and I value your work (especially in BW), and it is not my intention to offend you or hurt you with my remarks. It is my hope that as much as you value the beautiful and the sublime, you will value someone trying to state the truth just as much.

With respect,

thomas w

[billh]

Originally Posted by vic vic

bill... what exactly makes u laughing so much, will be glad to here the explanation....
i know ravi well well and i can understand his humour but yours is a bit not clear to me

It is somewhat difficult to explain why a comment or situation strikes one as humorous. First, this poster clearly looked in for the same reason (I assume) the rest of us looked. He was disappointed - considerably so apparently, and saw fit to complain he has to look at this sort of thing all the time, (left unsaid, but obvious, was the very last thing he wanted was to open your thread and see yet more of it). He finished by asking you to give him what he hoped to see in the first place (pretty young girls). That still makes me laugh. My wife finally had to come look and see what struck me so funny (I was laughing too hard to explain anything to her). She read that comment and said he better hope his wife doesn’t see what he wrote. Of course that make me laugh even harder.

I did not want to say anything like this because I did not know who the lady is, what your relationship to her is, or whether she would look in and see the comments. I would not like to hurt anyone feelings.

[squiff]

I like the concept alot, the human body is an amazing thing at any age, unfortuantly i dont think these were executed very well.
s

[vic vic]

thomas.. is there any chance that i will fill any offense on feelings tpwards me or model... your disciption and explanation are great....

my reactions to u step by step...
no, there was no intention to make the model discusting... but i do realize (and realized before i putted the film into the camera) that it can happen to some viewers.
now, about "wonnable hotti" and "pathetic"... here u simply hit my point and intentions and for that matter i will add that the model is fully aware of it.
about wonable hotti... this woman can turn around heads of many men.. i saw it... she knows how to do it.. she is intelegent and as it is seen in some of my photos she also has te powerfull "look" to her... i wanted to photograph her half year ago when i first saw her but then i was not around etc... she was asking herself ... do i belong to those young man that she can turn around his head or do i see something that goes on deep in her mind and sould. well, ya, that was what i asking myself when i saw her in a couple of parties half year ago... what is it... super intelegent and charizmatic woman that keeps on and on to be hotti... no husband, no kids... young friends, and defenetly tries to keep herself to stay cool as if ten and twenty years has not passed behind her... i was simply sure that there was simething more insight her (especially knowing that she is a painter artist etc). well, when we finally arranged a meeting, she was fully opened... and the word "pathetic" appeared a couple of times in her talks and my reactions (i talk very strieght and openly with people)... dont take it wrong.. it is not exactly "pathetic" as if she mirrors herslef "pathetic" in the social life... not at all... it is some deep feeling and "mental disposition" of her, that something now seems a little pathetic... it was ok ten years ago for sure but now it starts to feel pathetic..
so with those talks in mind, i have made some "mirroring" of the situations in a very strieght and un-ceremonized way.... is it sucesfful - i really dont knwo.. not sure about it.
i will continue of course with this project as we both want it and i will try to find some other paths or develop the existing paths...
so thomas... although u talked critically about what u said (no problems with it of course), your coment made me a little happy about those photos :-)))) u simply hit the point, or so it seemed to me when i read it. so im realy thankfull to u about that.

ha ha - about making flattering and beautiful photos with her.. i will do it too of course... well that is much eassier than the chalange i had in mind with this project :-)))))))))

bill, no problems man, i dont know u so may be i have over-reacted :-)))) i know ravi and for me, his statement fits his delightful and funny and humor with nice wisdom about life :-)))))))

steffani.. of course i agree with u..... about execusion of the photos... as i said.. i myself still not sure... but i will built the projevt step by step.. anyway.. the project is more concerned about "mental states" than "physical".

[fotografr]

"i know ravi and for me, his statement fits his delightful and funny and humor with nice wisdom about life :-)))))))"

I don't know ravi, but I know Bill and you just described him with these words.


I don't want to beat this thread to death, but I have one other question: There has been a lot said about what you were trying to do and hoping to accomplish with this project. I'm interested to know what your model/friend hoped to accomplish and whether she has any idea what the response to the photos has been. I can't imagine she would be pleased unless she has a cast iron ego.

[vic vic]

hi brent.. i dont know if to say iron ego but this is not a point at all...
the point is that in project that is artistically concidered, the subject becomes a "character" - something like in literature. or take an example... if robert de-niro playes bad guy, we dont neccessarly think that he is really bad outside the movie set... in photography, the element of realizm is very powerfull... far beyound painting, and also far beyound movie when the viewer is fully aware and concious about the differance between actor as actor or as a real-life person. so viewr should be more careful when he looks at photographs.
yes... the model looks at it as "acting" element a little bit... so it does not makes it an issue of ego.. but of course it still a little more difficult than painting.
while i had experinced some problems from many people i have photographed when i get extrimly direct, fortunatly, there are people (and this particular woman belongs to this category) that are fully aware of those differances...
about those talks here.. she doesnt really mind and doesnt know what we talk here... but from many friends that saw those photos (from the page on my web and some others that are not there ) most of the reactiones were that she performse in great manner especially sonce it is not an eassy thing in this case.
the realizm in photography can be super truthfull sometimes but also it can be super mis-leading, this is why u choose colour many times...