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X1 upgrade to X Typ.113


wda

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I regularly use my X1 as a go-anywhere camera. I passed upgrading to X2, but bought the X Vario which I find very competent. The new X was a candidate on my upgrade path until I saw the size penalty. It would cease to be a pocket camera as is my X1 during outings. The criticism of starting aperture is irrelevant to me for reasons stated by experienced photographers in another thread. In fact, I would have settled for a modern Summarit if the size could be constrained. A Summicron would be ideal. So an optimistic Summilux is neither needed nor supplied (Summilux equals constant f/1.4 opening aperture). A more modern sensor must show some advantage as well. So, on balance, what features of the new model would help me justify an upgrade, bearing in mind that I am not inclined to buy and sell cameras as quickly as some members of the forum.

 

Has anyone compared the optical performance, at f/2.8, between the X1 and latest X?

 

Second, auto-focus speed is less important to me than focusing accuracy. How do the two cameras compare in this domain? I have yet to handle the newer model. I would welcome ideas from actual users.

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Hi David

 

I have had the 113 for a couple of months now, so am still getting used to it but may be able to add some thoughts. As background, this is my first large sensor non-DSLR and also my first non-film Leica, I therefore can’t offer any direct comparison to the X1 or X2.

 

Auto-focus - accuracy seems excellent to me, the not infrequent focus errors, especially at first, have been down to me not the camera. My focus accuracy (and by this I mean picking up on when I am focusing on the wrong plane of focus) has been improved significantly by adding the Visoflex EVF. The EVF is a significant improvement for me and enables improved manual focus too. I understand focus speed is not important for you, but in fact speed is good, though not as fast as a modern DSLR with a similar focal length prime. I briefly tried the XE and the X did seem a bit quicker.

 

What convinced me on the purchase was the excellent image quality, very decent out of camera JPEGs - I don’t like spending ages post-processing, and good handling characteristics. The size is not dissimilar to a non-TTL film M with a 35 Summicron and controls and menu navigation are great. It is not a pocket camera though, especially with the EVF fitted. It would be an interesting comparison to your X Vario, I believe size and handling are extremely close and the sensor I think is the same, just new software / firmware and a fast prime.

 

Whilst it is not perfect, I am very happy with my X and would certainly recommend it for the images it is able to produce.

 

Hope this helps - Daniel

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Having moved from X2 to the 113, I have found the the MF dial to be the greatest improvement. Many things add up... I have found focussing accuracy to be slightly better in the 113 because during framing the aperture can open up to maximum at all focus distances, allowing maximum light in to aid the contrast AF operation.

 

I too own a Vario and they are operationally identical. I would suggest if you tend to favour the MF on the Vario (like I do), you will do the same on the 113 and use AF less.

 

I have noticed no differences in IQ at 2.8 between the cameras, I could not distinguish the images. On this basis, it was an operational upgrade!

 

The major disadvantage, is, as you say, the 113 is less pocketable than the X1/X2! Speed improvements in both AF and overall operation would be significant if upgrading from X1.

Edited by calithumpian
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I'm owner of an x1 and sometimes think if worthwhile upgrading to the new type 113. Not yet tried one. I shoot a lot of indoor and low light, outdoor I still prefer my m7! AF speed and/or easy manual focus are the plus I'm looking for. I would like to use it with the actual OVF of the x1.

Any comment, suggestions?

robert

PS: of course I know the best answer is to try one...:)

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I'm owner of an x1 and sometimes think if worthwhile upgrading to the new type 113. Not yet tried one. I shoot a lot of indoor and low light, outdoor I still prefer my m7! AF speed and/or easy manual focus are the plus I'm looking for. I would like to use it with the actual OVF of the x1.

Any comment, suggestions?

robert

PS: of course I know the best answer is to try one...:)

 

I'm in the same boat, love the old X1, won't part with it. Tried the X Vario, didn't really like it, no reason, just didn't. It's for sale.

Might just keep my head in the sand, stick with the X1 and M6. If I lust for a digital back, I will likely go another Sony A7. Considered the T, but the crop annoys me.

Having said all that, if the X1 wasn't part of my equation, the X would be perfect, I am sure.

Gary

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I had X1 and X2 before my new X and I found not one fact on the X thats worse than X1/X1 except the little growth of size.

 

My advantages of the X:

 

Ergonomic is much better

Lens: Much better close up

Aperture: F1,7 is much better than X2

ISO: 1600 is very OK (see link at the end)

In half-automatic-mode its possible to change the EV with the thumbwheel directly--Very good

Spare-batteries of X1/X2 fit

screw thread 43mm

No moving lens at switching on/off

Very good autofocus even under dark conditions

manual focus is very good usable now with lensring

close focus from 20cm (X1/X2 >30cm)

 

Aperturversus distance:

 

endless to 1,2m: F1,7

1,2m to 1,0m F1,8

1,0m to 0,8m F2,0

0,8m to 0,6m F2,2

0,6m to 0,45m F2,5

0,45m to 0,2m F2,8

 

Enclosed a link to some pictures from my X in the german forum:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/329915-leica-x-typ-113-a-8.html

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/347877-leica-x-typ-113-bilder-4.html

 

optical comparison of the X is much better in dark conditions, at good and bright weather most cameras look good…

 

 

I would buy the X again!!!

 

Many greetings

Edited by bikedoll
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Andreas, thank you for your detailed response. Very helpful. I am in no rush to buy but will seize the opportunity to handle the camera.

 

Technically it should be better than the X1. Many compare the lens performance at like apertures to the X Vario, which I have. I could see one being useful for many situations but, I must get used to the idea that it is NOT a pocket camera. It is a camera on a neck-strap, to be used like all cameras were when I first started my photography in the 1950s. In that sense it is like a small M with a 35mm Summicron lens.

 

Your low light samples are impressive. I didn't check whether metadata was available. But you did infer that you used ISO 1600. Can you say what actual shutter speed was set? In such situations I try not to go longer than 1/60 or 1/30 in extremis, if braced on a piece of furniture. But that is just my method of working to combat camera shake and minimise subject movement.

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David, for a truly pocketable travel camera might I suggest the 'C'? It will even fit in a shirt pocket, has a very useable EVF and image stabilisation. Of course there can be doubts about the small sensor size but the results IMHO can be truly impressive - examples here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/showthread.php?t=353735

 

A Merry Christmas to one and all. :)

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Andreas, thank you for your detailed response. Very helpful. I am in no rush to buy but will seize the opportunity to handle the camera.

 

Technically it should be better than the X1. Many compare the lens performance at like apertures to the X Vario, which I have. I could see one being useful for many situations but, I must get used to the idea that it is NOT a pocket camera. It is a camera on a neck-strap, to be used like all cameras were when I first started my photography in the 1950s. In that sense it is like a small M with a 35mm Summicron lens.

 

Your low light samples are impressive. I didn't check whether metadata was available. But you did infer that you used ISO 1600. Can you say what actual shutter speed was set? In such situations I try not to go longer than 1/60 or 1/30 in extremis, if braced on a piece of furniture. But that is just my method of working to combat camera shake and minimise subject movement.

 

 

I remained the exifs in the pictures. I set indoor Auto-ISO to 1600 and minimum speed to 1/30 sec. Over that I choosed F1,7. Its possible with the X shooting that from hand, but I sometimes used the timer for 1/30s. That works good.

X is really NOT pocketable. But my wife has the "C". Its very good, very small, has a good EVF and large zoom. Last but not least a good macro function. For me its the ideal combination. For most of the pictures the X, for the rest the "C".

 

many greetings

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Keith, thank you. I tried the C in London at launch and was impressed. It is just the sensor size which limits its potential use for stock photography, especially having got used to the larger formats in the X Vario and MP. But they are not pocketable; the X1 is, despite its age. I can see that I have answered my own question.

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