Nejad Posted July 27, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 27, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I purchased mine back in February thinking it'll be as good as X1 but with a zoom lens. Leica Store in London very kindly replaced my first XV acknowledging problems but I am no better off with the second XV: X Vario is my 7th Leica over the years so I mean what I say about worse Leica ever. In short the firmware for this camera needs to be scrapped and rewritten again but Leica is in denial or is not the Leica as we knew it. - You'll find that most of the images taken by this camera are very grainy and unusable. Try zooming in your computer screen and you'll be horrified to see poor quality of the image that is over 7 mega bytes in size. This might be one of the factors giving the appearance of being out of focus which is a common complaint with this camera. - Whether you use fully automatic mode (shutter and aperture), auto aperture or automatic ISO setting you will find that regardless of time of the day and intensity of sun the camera sets the shutter speed to 1/30 or lower and compensate with higher ISO, higher shutter speed or both. Taking a photo without the tripod at shutter speed of 1/30 or less is stupid and image stabilisation is probably creates high grains trying to mask the out of focus lines. - I like to take pictures of the flowers but I learned that taking pictures of anything (pure) red is not possible with this camera. - What you see on camera's screen is not what recorded and I wonder whether the firmware sends the wrong image to wrong location (good quality to screen, low res to memory stick!). I stopped using the electronic viewfinder with this fear in mind I am very disappointed with Leica and can say never again for another Leica but more than Leica I am furious with people in DPREVIEW and other forums that they got the camera for a day or so and wrote misleading reviews by superficially evaluating and rushing to wrong conclusions. Conclusion: You can occasionally take good pictures with this camera but best course of action if you have one is: - Set the aperture manually - NEVER use auto ISO - Use exposure bracketing setting it between +/- 2. it's a nuisance because you take several pictures of one scene then you have to sieve through selecting one and deleting others. To set the "Exposure bracketing" press EV button twice and use thumb wheel to adjust the range. PS if you use DNG file format be prepare to forget the camera for a minute or two while it's saving! I hope the above is useful Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 Hi Nejad, Take a look here X Vario: Worst Leica ever made?!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted July 27, 2014 Share #2 Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I hope the above is useful No. Bears no resemblance whatsoever to the XV I am using. I have none of the problems you indicate and all appear to be down to 'user' issues and not the camera itself. I have recently done some A2 prints form the XV and the quality is on a par with the M9. If you cannot get good images out of and XV then possibly you need some basic photography lessons on how to use a digital camera and process the images. Your post suggests you have very limited and rather confused ideas about what is going on ..... Edited July 27, 2014 by thighslapper 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 27, 2014 Share #3 Posted July 27, 2014 Nejad, with no track record in this forum, your first posting is highly derogatory and leaves many questions as to your motive for writing in such a vein. If your camera performed as described, take up the problems with Leica UK. In my experience your report is the first of its kind published here. I doubt that any readers will identify with the situation you describe. Sure the X Vario is not free from faults, but not so fatal as you describe. Taking one example of grain. If you suffer grainy results either something is seriously wrong with your sensor and in-camera processing; or something is seriously wrong with your post-processing. Both conditions are capable of being solved. Sort them our! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted July 27, 2014 Nejad, in order for your thoughts on this camera to be useful, I suggest that you take into account the very many positive reviews the camera has received from experienced and respected photographers, many published in this forum, and explore what the source of the differences between their experiences and yours might be. I don't have the camera myself, so I can only be guided by what others say, which makes your first ever post here rather more puzzling than useful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted July 27, 2014 Share #5 Posted July 27, 2014 The easiest way of illustrating that the assertations made by the OP are at variance with that of other X-Vario owners is to look at the contents of this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guytou Posted July 27, 2014 Share #6 Posted July 27, 2014 Nejad, I do not recognize Leica X Vario in the problems which you evoke. My X Vario satisfies me totally and I do not really regret having bought him. His key point is the exceptional quality of its optics! The sum of its qualities exceeds very widely its some small defects. You maybe fell on a defective device or you consulted the manual of use too quickly... Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nejad Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted July 27, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) No. Bears no resemblance whatsoever to the XV I am using. I have none of the problems you indicate and all appear to be down to 'user' issues and not the camera itself. I have recently done some A2 prints form the XV and the quality is on a par with the M9. If you cannot get good images out of and XV then possibly you need some basic photography lessons on how to use a digital camera and process the images. Your post suggests you have very limited and rather confused ideas about what is going on ..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not going to rise up to your rude remarks, the clue to my experience was in my text. Congratulations that you don't see a problems Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nejad Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not going to rise up to your rude remarks, the clue to my experience was in my text. I acknowledge that some may not have problem and these views are useful at the same time they indicate that there is an issue with firmware that gets corrupted in some cameras and not all Edited July 27, 2014 by Nejad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 27, 2014 Share #9 Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not going to rise up to your rude remarks, the clue to my experience was in my text. Congratulations that you don't see a problems I decided the camera was not for me, but the problems you describe are most likely user error or possibly a faulty camera. If there is one thing that is excellent on this camera it is image quality. So yes, it is legitimate to query your experience. It would be useful if you posted some examples including full EXIF to enable us to help solve your problems. Your remark about bracketing is quite puzzling. Isn't that what it is about? Not being able to take red flowers points at an exposure error. Edited July 27, 2014 by jaapv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Photo Posted July 27, 2014 Share #10 Posted July 27, 2014 - You'll find that most of the images taken by this camera are very grainy and unusable. Try zooming in your computer screen and you'll be horrified to see poor quality of the image ... I will definitely not. It is only getting grainy using high ISO. Using it with the right settings it's working great. During night time. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-12.html#post2576440 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-13.html#post2580013 Using it with a flash. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-17.html#post2655198 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-17.html#post2655259 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-21.html#post2740641 Using higher ISO because of the need of shorter shutter speeds http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/tier-natur/3127-doglovers-der-unendliche-hunde-thread-59.html#post2673961 - Whether you use fully automatic mode (shutter and aperture), auto aperture or automatic ISO setting you will find that regardless of time of the day and intensity of sun the camera sets the shutter speed to 1/30 or lower and compensate with higher ISO, higher shutter speed or both. No, if the sun shines the camera is using the maximum aperture, ISO100 and the shutter speed which is the right one für the correct exposure. Settings in Auto-ISO forshutter speed to 1/30s the camera only is using a higher ISO when you would need longer shutter speed for the right exposure. If you don't want higher ISO use the proper settings. You can choose between 400/800/1600/3200/6400 for maximum ISO using Auto-ISO. - I like to take pictures of the flowers but I learned that taking pictures of anything (pure) red is not possible with this camera. Sorry, I made enough pictures of red dresses, where is the problem. Which profile / converter you are using, etc. ? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-x1/290688-leica-x-vario-schnappies-aller-art-19.html#post2708298 - What you see on camera's screen is not what recorded and I wonder whether the firmware sends the wrong image to wrong location (good quality to screen, low res to memory stick!). :confused: PS if you use DNG file format be prepare to forget the camera for a minute or two while it's saving! Our minutes over here in Germany do have sixty seconds and the camera is not blocked for one or two minutes using DNG. Maybe you are using a different watch. I hope the above is useful No, not for me. I don't like the video mode, the lens should have a greater maximum aperture, an integrated viewfinder would be nice, better settings in Auto-ISO and using it in M should be possible, etc.. There a few points I would wish would be different with X Vario. But in my opinion your complaints are more likely based on the way you are using the camera / settings on the camera. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thighslapper Posted July 27, 2014 Popular Post Share #11 Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Oh dear ...... I don't know why I am wasting valuable life doing this .... but here goes...... - You'll find that most of the images taken by this camera are very grainy and unusable. Complete rubbish ..... see typical images below ..... with 100% crop... Try zooming in your computer screen and you'll be horrified to see poor quality of the image that is over 7 mega bytes in size. Rubbish ...... and any serious photographer would use DNG. Adobe LR is supplied free for this specific purpose. Whether you use fully automatic mode (shutter and aperture), auto aperture or automatic ISO setting you will find that regardless of time of the day and intensity of sun the camera sets the shutter speed to 1/30 or lower and compensate with higher ISO, higher shutter speed or both. The camera defaults to a shutter speed of 1/f .... unless you exceed your maximum ISO, in which case it drops to the minimum you set .... 1/15 or 1/30. Logical and sensible. If you don't like it set speed manually. READ THE MANUAL. Taking a photo without the tripod at shutter speed of 1/30 or less is stupid and image stabilisation is probably creates high grains trying to mask the out of focus lines. 1/30 is perfectly possible hand-held up to 50mm. There is no image stabilisation. Camera shake does not cause increased image granularity ..... quite the reverse. - I like to take pictures of the flowers but I learned that taking pictures of anything (pure) red is not possible with this camera. Pure red images cause problems on almost all digital cameras due to the sensor having poor sensitivity to red and tending to overexpose if there are large areas of red in the metered area. Underexpose by 1-2 EV. What you see on camera's screen is not what recorded and I wonder whether the firmware sends the wrong image to wrong location (good quality to screen, low res to memory stick!). I stopped using the electronic viewfinder with this fear in mind The camera has card, not a stick. The image quality on the screen is limited by the JPG resolution you has set on your images ...... and the screen resolution is less than 1 megapixels whereas even the lowest possible saveable JPG on the camera is 1.8 megapixels ..... so the screen image can NEVER be better than the output to card. I am furious with people in DPREVIEW and other forums that they got the camera for a day or so and wrote misleading reviews by superficially evaluating and rushing to wrong conclusions. DPreview did not do a review of this camera. I cannot recall any rave reviews .... and in fact most would tend to put the casual buyer off...... Use exposure bracketing setting it between +/- 2. it's a nuisance because you take several pictures of one scene then you have to sieve through selecting one and deleting others. If you cannot take pictures without +/- 2 ev bracketing then you are doing something very strange .... like having spot metering set all the time. If you use DNG file format be prepare to forget the camera for a minute or two while it's saving! Absolute rubbish. You can take a second image almost instantly .... just half press the shutter which prevents review of the previous and off you go again. The camera has a buffer and in continuous mode it will take 7 images instantly before slowing down ..... but of course if everything you take is 3 shot bracketed then you have created the problem yourself ...... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 27, 2014 by thighslapper 20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/231164-x-vario-worst-leica-ever-made/?do=findComment&comment=2638084'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted July 27, 2014 Share #12 Posted July 27, 2014 Nejad - Welcome to the Forum. When I first came to this Forum it was with the hope of learning from other Leica users, and I've learned a great deal from them. I strongly urge you to do the same. I do find it interesting that your first visit here as a seven-time Leica camera owner was a rather long list of negative experiences with your Leica #7. Based on my own experiences with a very early XV (first firmware release) I had none of the problems you describe. BTW: I did not buy the camera but only because it did not fit my needs. You describe problems with red, which Thighslapper above addresses. That too is my experience with red with every digital camera I've used. That observation of yours, vs. my own experiences with red and that reported here by many other users, suggests to me that your issues might be improper use of the camera. I encourage you to take advantage of the vast experience and expertise of the Forum membership. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunos Posted July 27, 2014 Share #13 Posted July 27, 2014 With regard to the RAW files, they do require more processing (in LR / PS) to get close to the OOC jpg than with most cameras from Canon, Nikon and even other Leica's such as the M, M9 and even the X2. This is because Adobe don't officially support the X Vario in their DNG converter. This means that they haven't created a profile for the camera. It is the profile that defines the "default" look of the RAW file when displayed in LR or PS. Photoshop Help | Camera Raw I find with images containing red areas (even after profiling my monitor) that I have to reduce the red saturation by around 30% to make it look normal to me. Having said that I am using a laptop most of the time and when viewing on a better quality screen the reds do not seem so... red. But essentially it is all down to the DNG Converter profile and the fact that no one has made one for the X Vario. When Canon or Nikon release a new camera, Adobe very quickly creates one or more profiles that "emulate" the various OOC settings on these cameras. As you can imagine, with the X Vario not being the most popular camera in the world, it probably isn't very high on Adobe's priority list. Therefore when you are using RAW files from the X Vario in LR or PS they are more "raw" than perhaps from other cameras. I found this to be the same with Iridient Developer. Capture One was closer but still had issues in this regard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted July 27, 2014 Share #14 Posted July 27, 2014 I purchased mine back in February thinking it'll be as good as X1 but with a zoom lens. Leica Store in London very kindly replaced my first XV acknowledging problems but I am no better off with the second XV:X Vario is my 7th Leica over the years so I mean what I say about worse Leica ever. In short the firmware for this camera needs to be scrapped and rewritten again but Leica is in denial or is not the Leica as we knew it. - You'll find that most of the images taken by this camera are very grainy and unusable. Try zooming in your computer screen and you'll be horrified to see poor quality of the image that is over 7 mega bytes in size. This might be one of the factors giving the appearance of being out of focus which is a common complaint with this camera. - Whether you use fully automatic mode (shutter and aperture), auto aperture or automatic ISO setting you will find that regardless of time of the day and intensity of sun the camera sets the shutter speed to 1/30 or lower and compensate with higher ISO, higher shutter speed or both. Taking a photo without the tripod at shutter speed of 1/30 or less is stupid and image stabilisation is probably creates high grains trying to mask the out of focus lines. - I like to take pictures of the flowers but I learned that taking pictures of anything (pure) red is not possible with this camera. - What you see on camera's screen is not what recorded and I wonder whether the firmware sends the wrong image to wrong location (good quality to screen, low res to memory stick!). I stopped using the electronic viewfinder with this fear in mind I am very disappointed with Leica and can say never again for another Leica but more than Leica I am furious with people in DPREVIEW and other forums that they got the camera for a day or so and wrote misleading reviews by superficially evaluating and rushing to wrong conclusions. Conclusion: You can occasionally take good pictures with this camera but best course of action if you have one is: - Set the aperture manually - NEVER use auto ISO - Use exposure bracketing setting it between +/- 2. it's a nuisance because you take several pictures of one scene then you have to sieve through selecting one and deleting others. To set the "Exposure bracketing" press EV button twice and use thumb wheel to adjust the range. PS if you use DNG file format be prepare to forget the camera for a minute or two while it's saving! I hope the above is useful Either you are a troll or you do not know how to make pics and how to process them! But with 3 posts I assume the first option! VX is a great camera! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted July 27, 2014 Share #15 Posted July 27, 2014 Either you are a troll or you do not know how to make pics and how to process them! But with 3 posts I assume the first option! VX is a great camera! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickillinger Posted July 27, 2014 Share #16 Posted July 27, 2014 Now you've gone and done it. I'll have aural nightmares for at least a week! Gah!!! It's stuck in my head! Get it out! Get it out! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted July 28, 2014 Share #17 Posted July 28, 2014 ..............down to the DNG Converter profile and the fact that no one has made one for the X Vario. ................... If I'm right, Capture1 Version 7.2 proposes an X Vario generic profile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 28, 2014 Share #18 Posted July 28, 2014 Current versions of Lightroom and Camera Raw include a DNG camera profile for the X Vario. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunos Posted July 28, 2014 Share #19 Posted July 28, 2014 @papimuzo: It does propose an X Vario generic profile, and it is a lot closer to OOC images than the Adobe Standard profile in LR, but it wasn't quite enough to get me to part with my cash and change my workflow. However I would suggest it to others as something to try. More recently I have been playing with the Visual Supply Company film presets for LR to get a stylised look to my photos... they have created a profile for the X Vario (although not one you would want to use unless you were using it with their presets). Their presets work well for street photography, I think, but you wouldn't want to use them if you are trying to get the purest image ever. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunos Posted July 28, 2014 Share #20 Posted July 28, 2014 Current versions of Lightroom and Camera Raw include a DNG camera profile for the X Vario. Would you mind showing us a screenshot of your profile selector in LR? As my (current copy) of LR doesn't have a profile for the X Vario... only "Embedded" and "Adobe Standard". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.