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X1 discussion thread (merged)


fuchs

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Comparing the proportions of the imaged Leica M9, MP, M7 and the new X1 on the leaked brochure, and despite the marketing blabbering about it resembling a Leica M, I find the new compact camera to have the proportions, and possibly the size of a classic LTM (Barnak) camera.

 

I find it strikingly similar to the Leica I (Mod.A) with fixed lens, both in concept and in design.

 

If we assume that the expected 24/2.8 ASPH Elmarit is as an outstanding lens as the M-version, that it will have a CMOS with 1.5 or 1.6 crop, delivering perhaps great High ISO image quality, on par say to the one in the Canon 40/50D or Nikon D300 line, I think that this is the groundbreaking camera Leica has announced, and not the M9.

 

In fact, the M9 looks more like the logical evolution of the M8/M8.2 design, certainly a technical landmark camera, but not a groundbreaking new concept.

 

Taking into account AF, high quality optics, compactness, this last leading perhaps to a sturdy and very resistent body, I can imagine easily lots of reportage photogs massively adopting this camera.

 

It might be that in the last months I have been shooting a IIIF with a 35mm on it, but I am finding the X1 more exciting than the M9, even before considering the price gap that there will be between them. Am I the only one?

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It's (almost) official, taking the fight, along with Sigma, to M4/3rds in the large-sensor Compact sector.

 

According to the leaked PDF it's equipped with a CMOS sensor equal in size to that of many DSLR's. A fixed lens compact with what looks like a 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit lens (approx 35mm equivalent?), manual and automatic, plus autofocus.

 

Big news, I think.

Edited by stevelap
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I find myself getting increasingly fascinated with the X1. As I posted in another thread, if it makes up for the shortcomings of the DP1/2, this might be the perfect carry-everywhere-shoot-everything camera! If the images turn out to be gloriously like what the M8 churns out, I might just sell my entire M kit, lenses and all, and get the X1 and the remaining money on a beach house! :p

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I fully agree with you. This finally looks pretty much like the digital camera I've been waiting for (and which I've described here). The idea to use a form factor similar to the Leica I is very clever and from the photo in the brochure the thing looks like a beauty to me. The only downside for me right now (not confirmed yet, but likely) is that there's no integrated viewfinder, but I hope they'll offer a decent one that you can attach to it. Or maybe they'll even surprise us and the thing has a viewfinder. No picture of the backside has leaked yet, has it?

 

Anyway, I'm excited as well and I think I want one. Too bad it probably won't be available on September 9 like the M9...

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I didn't see any other brochure. I've heard that the X1 is coming later than the M9, so maybe the full technical specs will appear later. From the comments in the introductory paragraph I think it's fairly safe to assume APS-C, although it doesn't actually say that of course.......and there are DSLR's with 4/3rds sensors:eek::).

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I fully agree with you. This finally looks pretty much like the digital camera I've been waiting for (and which I've described here). The idea to use a form factor similar to the Leica I is very clever and from the photo in the brochure the thing looks like a beauty to me. The only downside for me right now (not confirmed yet, but likely) is that there's no integrated viewfinder, but I hope they'll offer a decent one that you can attach to it. Or maybe they'll even surprise us and the thing has a viewfinder. No picture of the backside has leaked yet, has it?

 

Anyway, I'm excited as well and I think I want one. Too bad it probably won't be available on September 9 like the M9...

 

Interesting - it never occurred to me that it might have an EVF built in... you may well be correct :)

How nice if it has one in the same position as the M finder, I can finally have a point-and-shoot that I'd actually use.

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I know this has lots of wishful thinking in it, but... what if the Leica X1 has the same CMOS sensor than the Canon 7D, sporting 18MP with useable ISOs up to 6400 (or 12800, accordind to some)?

 

As a matter of fact, there have been lots of rumors lately about a "collaboration" between Leica and Canon at sensor level. Most of us, thinking only of the M9, have not come to think that it would be possible that both cameras (X1 & M9) have 18MP sensors, albeit with different provenances and/or different crops

 

I don't know: Is Kodak making CMOS sensors? Are there any Kodak CMOS 1.5 or 1.6 crop sensors?

If not, the remaining choices for APS-C sensors are Canon, Samsung/Pentax and Sony (this last builds both Nikon and Sony Alpha sensors). Is any other company producing CMOS sensors in the APS-C format?

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Interesting - it never occurred to me that it might have an EVF built in... you may well be correct :)

How nice if it has one in the same position as the M finder, I can finally have a point-and-shoot that I'd actually use.

 

I think it has a Liveview LCD at the back as every other compact out there. There is an accessory flash shoe on it, so there surely will be some sort of OVF for the camera. If not, you can use any of the excellent accessory 35mm VFs Leica and others have built over time. It may even have some contacts as the Panasonic GF-1 for a detachable EVF.

 

After shooting my IIIF with an accessory-shoe mounted VC2 lightmeter for some time now, I find the idea of a detachable VF more acceptable, even if pocketability is somewhat compromised.

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X1 looks interesting although I did suspect the photos to be fake originally. I like the form but it needs a finder for me. Possible that there's an EVF but I doubt it. I suspect you will need a shoe mounted finder, which then means you can't have a finder and use flash.....

 

As its a fixed lens camera it really should have decent optical finder IMHO.

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I find the Leica X1 more exciting than the M9. I have been an early adopter of the M8, and still like it and have it. It has currently more than 25000 shutter actuations on it, and have been a Leica M shooter since 1989 or so, having had multiple M cameras and shooting at least a frame each day since that date. So, I consider myself no novice in Leica M shooting.

 

But this X1 looks like a new concept to me, and a seducing one too. If this camera costs around uss 2500, has a CMOS sensor delivering IQ and High ISOs similar to the one in the Canon 7D (there have already been rumours lately about Leica and Canon "collaboration"), has a fast and reliable AF, stunning optics (which seems to be the case), and is sturdy and silent, thi might be the perfect reportage camera.

 

In the days of analog film PJ, each photog had his little M2, M3 or M6 inside the Domke waiting for the Pulitzer pic or for their personal projects... This X1 could be the honorable heir to that tradition, and as such, be a real winning card in Leica's hand.

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I like the body shape and agree that it looks like a Leica 1A. It looks like it will be very compact and light, which means it's pretty much pocketable.

 

I wish it had an optical viewfinder. Even if it was a less sophisticated RF unit, as was used in the CL.

 

I fear that as is the case all other EVF cameras, there will be too much display lag and tearing to allow decisive moment shots. They would have to seriously crank up the fps of the display to overcome that problem. Maybe they can do that with Maestro only having to crunch data coming off an APS-C sensor. That's a lot, lot less data than what it's handling for the M9 and S2... Speaking of the lack of OVF how are you supposed to do street photography with the camera held in front of you and your arms stretched out? Take a look at the Winogrand videos in YouTube. That's how a lot of us shoot (just not quite as fast or good...)

 

I pray that Leica has a very clever implementation of scale focusing. That way at least you could put an optical brightline finder on it, preset focus to 2.5 or 5 meters and blast away, as long as you can shoot between f5.6 - f16 and a reasonable shutter speed. Otherwise it's a D-LUX 5, with a bigger sensor and killer fixed focus lens.

 

If scale focusing is well implemented it wouldn't be as flexible as an M-body, but as good as shooting with an LTM in daylight.

 

Maybe Leica will make a few variations of the camera, just like they did with the LTM bodies. Some had RF units, others didn't.

 

I'm very curious about the price. Anyone want to take a guess?

 

$999 (ha ha ha...)

 

$1500

 

$1999

 

$2500

 

More?

Edited by thrid
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...

As its a fixed lens camera it really should have decent optical finder IMHO.

 

Yes, I agree. But it seems to be a trend that, even with the relatively simplicity of fitting a decent OVF to a fixed focal length lens camera, everyone is following. I am thinking of both Sigmas, and the three GR-D iterations by Ricoh....

 

Ah, the old time of Nikon 35Ti's, Leica Miniluxes and Contax T-anithing OVFs are gone for good!

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I wish it had an optical viewfinder. Even if it was a less sophisticated RF unit, as was used in the CL.

 

I fear that as is the case all other EVF cameras, there will be too much display lag and tearing to allow decisive moment shots. They would have to seriously crank up the fps of the display to overcome that problem. Maybe they can do that with Maestro crunching data coming off an APS sensor.

 

Also, how are you supposed to do street photography with the camera held in front of you and your arms stretched out? Take a look at the Winogrand videos in YouTube. That's how a lot of us shoot (just not quite as fast or good...)

 

I pray that Leica has a very clever implementation of scale focusing. That way at least you could put an optical brightline finder on it, preset focus to 2.5 or 5 meters and blast away, as long as you can shoot between f5.6 - f16 at a reasonable shutter speed. Otherwise it looks like a D-LUX 5, with a bigger sensor and killer fixed focus lens.

 

If scale focusing is well implemented it wouldn't be as flexible as an M-body, but as good as shooting with an LTM in daylight.

 

Maybe Leica will make a few variations of the camera, just like they did with the LTM bodies. Some had RF units, others didn't.

 

I'm very curious about the price. Anyone want to take a guess?

 

$999 (ha ha ha...)

 

$1500

 

$1999

 

$2500

 

More?

 

The leaked brochure talks about plenty of Manual setting options. Let's hope there is a snap mode similar to the one in the Ricohs, that emulates scale focusing...

 

They will certainly porduce different FL versions, a normal/tele one and /or a wider one.

 

RE the price, I expect it to be in the 2000-2500 range. Units vary, as usual, with latitude and longitude.....

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The leaked brochure talks about plenty of Manual setting options. Let's hope there is a snap mode similar to the one in the Ricohs, that emulates scale focusing....

 

 

Bingo. Richo really got scale focusing right with the GRD series. Very nicely done.

 

 

 

They will certainly porduce different FL versions, a normal/tele one and /or a wider one.

 

RE the price, I expect it to be in the 2000-2500 range. Units vary, as usual, with latitude and longitude.....

 

$2000-2500 is a lot of cash for that sort of camera, but I'm afraid that you're probably right.

That red dot is really expensive...

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I was relieved to see that contrary to the earlier photographs or renderings of the X1 with the awkward-looking hand grip, the camera seen head-on in the M8 brochure is simply stunning.

 

I just took a look at the original picture of the X1, which showed up a few days back, with the picture that appeared today in the M9 brochure. They're identical cameras. The only difference is that the original picture shows the X1 with a handgrip (undoubtedly detachable) while the new picture shows the camera without the handgrip.

 

I do agree that the camera is stunning.

 

Jim B.

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I really look forward to hearing more details on the X1 (e.g., price, resolution, viewfinder, etc.), but preliminary info (manual control as well as autofocus) is very promising. I have been wishing for a camera like this for a long time.

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