Loplop Posted October 3, 2014 Share #1 Posted October 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, all! I'm new to the forum, but not to Leica (with many years of Barnack and M3/M4 shooting under my belt). I've never owned a M8/M9/M240, but I recently grabbed an X Vario Typ 107. I've always been impressed with actual user (not review!) results from that camera, so after the most recent round of price drops I couldn't resist any longer. Also, with the Typ 113 on the horizon, I felt that the 107/113 combo could be a do-it-all combo for me. But there's a lot of posts on the 107, and since the 113 is so new, not so many about it. My 113 arrived yesterday and I thought I'd start a rolling review of sorts. My first installment can be found here: Leica X Type 113: First Thoughts Review. Enjoy! L1000514 by ndjedinak, on Flickr 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Hi Loplop, Take a look here Rolling Review on Leica X Typ 113. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
calithumpian Posted October 4, 2014 Share #2 Posted October 4, 2014 Great review, looking forward to more instalments. Does that beautiful new lens cap fit over the Vario as well? I have always disliked the Vario cap. I too am considering the 113 as a partner camera to the 107, a lot to be said for two identical cameras, shared accessories, and coming in at vastly less than the cost of the T with its two stock lenses @ 35 and 28-70. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrPix Posted October 4, 2014 Share #3 Posted October 4, 2014 I almost totally agree with your preliminary comments. With one exception - this so called Summilux is, on MY camera, rather soft on first 3 openings (in the centre, on borders it´s even worse!). I´m talking DNG files viewed in LR (with "usual" sharpness tweaking). In my "eyes" (subjectively) XVario optics render much better IQ and the slower "speed" of the lens is of no importance TO ME. Otherwise, especially Visoflex finder, it´s a nice camera but no competition to my Vario, so I sent it (X) back:(. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calithumpian Posted October 4, 2014 Share #4 Posted October 4, 2014 sad to hear, DrPix. was the sharpness there above f/3.5 or was it only in the wider apertures?would be great to do a side by side comparison of images from these cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrPix Posted October 4, 2014 Share #5 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I´m NOT trying to discourage people from buying X. I LOVE Leica; I´ve been shooting with almost all Leica digicams for the last few years! My "reflections" are purely subjective, can only compare IQ of "my pics" on "my screen". Maybe the silver X I´ve tried was a lemon - highly unlikely - it´s rather my too high expectations! Many users will surely be thrilled and I´ll be crucified:). On my X "sharpness" became acceptable from f/4, quite good-very good on f/5.6 and f/8, not improving on f/11 (dof vs diffraction). AWB is not very best/accurate (as mentioned) still, the camera renders very nice images but the "spark" from XVario images was missing! If only Leica could come up with a Visoflex for XVario! As someone said - XVario is a M-class camera with some very high quality M-class lenses in ONE body! Perhaps not for "bookeh/speed" enthusiasts.. but for "the rest":p. Edited October 4, 2014 by DrPix 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted October 4, 2014 Great review, looking forward to more instalments. Does that beautiful new lens cap fit over the Vario as well? I have always disliked the Vario cap. I too am considering the 113 as a partner camera to the 107, a lot to be said for two identical cameras, shared accessories, and coming in at vastly less than the cost of the T with its two stock lenses @ 35 and 28-70. The X 113 lens cap will not fit the 107. It slides on, but is far too loose I had the same thoughts on the T. Also, I prefer the haptics of the X bodies, which are so similar to the film M cameras that they feel like second nature. Also, I've not yet seen that the T's zoom matches the X Vario; it doesn't appear to have the same signature from the photos I've seen so far. Time will tell, perhaps I'm wrong there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I almost totally agree with your preliminary comments. With one exception - this so called Summilux is, on MY camera, rather soft on first 3 openings (in the centre, on borders it´s even worse!). I´m talking DNG files viewed in LR (with "usual" sharpness tweaking). In my "eyes" (subjectively) XVario optics render much better IQ and the slower "speed" of the lens is of no importance TO ME. Otherwise, especially Visoflex finder, it´s a nice camera but no competition to my Vario, so I sent it (X) back:(. DrPix; I'm not certain what testing Leica does to each body, or if it was possible your X/113 was somehow damaged in transit, but I can say that my 113 matches my X Vario with both wide open, and is significantly "better" at optimum apertures. I may have received a particularly good copy, or perhaps simply a copy performing properly. Here's a quick and dirty grab for you. X 113 shot wide open vs. X Vario shot at 35mm equiv wide open. They are very comparable, IMO. At f1.7, the plane of focus on the X Type 113 is significantly smaller; but on the plane of focus (the wall and the close part of the bush), the two cameras perform nearly identically. If anything, the X 113 is slightly sharper with a tiny bit better contrast. Of course, the Vario has deeper DoF, so things off the plane of focus are sharper on the Vario. You can see my White Balance differences here. The Vario more aggressively corrects WB. I like that better. http://s44.photobucket.com/user/loplop/media/XvsVarioat35_zps28e1dca7.jpg.html EDIT: I added a different link--I think you can click through and choose the magnifier to see actual pixels. Let me know if not. Edited October 4, 2014 by Loplop 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Lei Lux Posted October 4, 2014 Share #8 Posted October 4, 2014 The X 113 lens cap will not fit the 107. It slides on, but is far too loose I had the same thoughts on the T. Also, I prefer the haptics of the X bodies, which are so similar to the film M cameras that they feel like second nature. Also, I've not yet seen that the T's zoom matches the X Vario; it doesn't appear to have the same signature from the photos I've seen so far. Time will tell, perhaps I'm wrong there. no, no, the absolut leica X-dream-team and formula one: X-Vario (107) + X (113). mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calithumpian Posted October 4, 2014 Share #9 Posted October 4, 2014 Shame about the lens cap! Thanks for posting that comparison between X and XV at their maximum apertures. I must say too that Sean Reid has done an excellent review of the 113 on his website, well worth the subscription: At the moment I carry my Vario everywhere in the ever ready case - I guess the 113 will fit in there too. When I get a 113 I'll have to buy a system case (ona??) .... and what a wonderful system it will be! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted October 4, 2014 Shame about the lens cap! Thanks for posting that comparison between X and XV at their maximum apertures. I must say too that Sean Reid has done an excellent review of the 113 on his website, well worth the subscription:At the moment I carry my Vario everywhere in the ever ready case - I guess the 113 will fit in there too. When I get a 113 I'll have to buy a system case (ona??) .... and what a wonderful system it will be! Do you like the ever ready case? I've thought of buying one, as it would be allow me to toss the 107 in my briefcase without worrying about my laptop dinging the finish or damaging the lens, and it's probably the least bulky case to put the vario in. What's stopped me are two things: 1. I wish the lens cover portion was removeable so it could be used as a half case when less bulk or quicker access were desired, and 2. I'm not sure I'd like both the 107 and 113 in every ready cases together, a system case as you put it would be more useful. I'd love it if leica made a high quality leather system case just big enough for both cameras, but I doubt that will come. For the moment, my trusty old crumpler will do. I'm any case, if you'd like any specific info on the 113, let me know. Otherwise, I'll just update as thoughts come. Perhaps I'll post a f5.6 crop, as well. I think the 113 is even better than the very fine 107. Although I will say my 107 is best at 50 and 70, and weakest as you move towards 28. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted October 6, 2014 Part 2 can be found here, with thoughts on the variable aperture discussion lighting up the forums : Leica X 113: What About that Variable Aperture? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Lei Lux Posted October 6, 2014 Share #12 Posted October 6, 2014 Part 2 can be found here, with thoughts on the variable aperture discussion lighting up the forums : Leica X 113: What About that Variable Aperture? thank you, I think thats ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calithumpian Posted October 7, 2014 Share #13 Posted October 7, 2014 Do you like the ever ready case? I've thought of buying one, as it would be allow me to toss the 107 in my briefcase without worrying about my laptop dinging the finish or damaging the lens, and it's probably the least bulky case to put the vario in. What's stopped me are two things: 1. I wish the lens cover portion was removeable so it could be used as a half case when less bulk or quicker access were desired, and 2. I'm not sure I'd like both the 107 and 113 in every ready cases together, a system case as you put it would be more useful. I'd love it if leica made a high quality leather system case just big enough for both cameras, but I doubt that will come. For the moment, my trusty old crumpler will do. I'm any case, if you'd like any specific info on the 113, let me know. Otherwise, I'll just update as thoughts come. Perhaps I'll post a f5.6 crop, as well. I think the 113 is even better than the very fine 107. Although I will say my 107 is best at 50 and 70, and weakest as you move towards 28. It’s a great little case, beautifully made with a very sturdy and a hard shell which provides great protection in a bag. You're right, the lower portion is identical to the protector that Leica sell for the Vario, but does not detach which could have worked well. I love this case for its ever-ready ability – to go from in case to taking a snap in seconds. The large lump which dangles out the front gets in the way for extended shooting but I usually take it out of the case anyway using the press studs which secure the case around the strap eyelets. This system allows the case to utilise the camera strap, great for protection while moving about around the neck. So I use it as a very small and compact standard (take out, put away) case with the ability to take quick snaps and keep it in the case when necessary. Great to see part 2 of the review. With all the flack that the variable aperture is copping its good to see the other perspective. The low light performance between the 113 and 107 must be like night and day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jvansmit Posted October 8, 2014 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2014 Part 2 can be found here, with thoughts on the variable aperture discussion lighting up the forums : Leica X 113: What About that Variable Aperture? I may very well be wrong but doesn't aperture describe the light-gathering ability of a lens only for objects an infinite distance away, and the effective aperture becomes smaller when focusing at close distances? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted October 13, 2014 So I use it as a very small and compact standard (take out, put away) case with the ability to take quick snaps and keep it in the case when necessary. Great to see part 2 of the review. With all the flack that the variable aperture is copping its good to see the other perspective. The low light performance between the 113 and 107 must be like night and day. Nice, thank you, that's very helpful. I will watch for the ever ready case to become available and grab one. That sounds highly useful, and since its quick to remove I can use it without when I want to go light or carry it around my neck. The low light performance of the 113 is excellent! As you say, night and day to the 107. I even find myself reaching for it more frequently around the house, as the fast lens allows for much lower iso than the 107. I've been very pleased with the high iso response of the 107s sensor, but in most cases you get 2 stops better with the 113 which allows for more gentle tonal variations and certainly better dynamic range. Check out some night shots here: X at night ... you can shoot in almost zero light and get excellent images. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted October 13, 2014 I may very well be wrong but doesn't aperture describe the light-gathering ability of a lens only for objects an infinite distance away, and the effective aperture becomes smaller when focusing at close distances? I believe aperture describes the size of the opening relative to the focal length of the lens, and, as you say, at a specific distance. I'm not sure if infinity or another distance is most common. And,I do believe the effective aperture of a lens gets smaller as you focus closer, but that's not what you're seeing with the 113. I think you'd have to get into serious macro range to lose 1.5 stops of light. Leica is choosing to narrow the aperture; you can clearly see this behavior in the viewfinder as it correctly gives you a shooting aperture DoF preview upon half pressing the shutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted October 13, 2014 The third installment is here. Enjoy, and let me know if you have any questions! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 14, 2014 Share #18 Posted October 14, 2014 great reviews, thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted October 14, 2014 Share #19 Posted October 14, 2014 ... Check out some night shots here: X at night ... you can shoot in almost zero light and get excellent images. I am sure most of your 'dark' pictures could be improved in LR. See if you can improve ****350 for example, which is a charming candid family picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loplop Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted October 14, 2014 I am sure most of your 'dark' pictures could be improved in LR. See if you can improve ****350 for example, which is a charming candid family picture. Sometimes I like darkness, and choose the exposure with intent to match mood or what my minds eye "saw" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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