Structuring a wiki

[ericperlberg]

I just took a look at the wiki and found that the main page was the standard default wiki page.

Having set up a wiki before for a community I would recommend setting up a basic structure so that the main page has a logical hierarchy so that when people land on it they have some idea of how to look for info. An example *might be*:
a) Leica thread mount cameras and accessories
b) Leica M mount cameras and accessories
c) Leica Thread mount lenses
d) Leica M lenses
e) Leica R cameras
f) Leica R lenses
g) Leica-Pani Digital Cameras and lenses
h) Leica History including famous photographers, business issues, etc.
i) Leica Collecting

Setting up the basic structure is easy to do (after you've decided on the basic organisation) by simply creating the new page using (again for example) the above terms and creating the link.

In my experience its then a good idea to populate each topic above with some blank sub topics. For example
b) Leica M mount cameras would have sub categories
i) M3
ii) M2
iii) M1
iv) M4
v) M5
vi) M6
vii) M7
viii) MP
ix) M8

Again, you need do nothing more than create the empty pages and a link. No need to start filling in info, the users can do that. Of course the power of a wiki is that you can add on stuff when ever you discover you need it but a basic structure gets everyone started much quicker and yields a much more accessable wiki.

I would love to see each lens Leica has made get an entry with our knowledgeable users filling in with material about each lens including links to current prices.

I guess to the above should be (could be) info on CV bodies, CV lenses, Zeiss bodies and lenses, etc, or simply 3rd party bodies and lenses since we talk about them too.

Other topics might include:
Printing technique Film
Printing technique Digital
Cleaning digital cameras
protecting and storing film
protecting and storing digital files
Setting up a digital darkroom
Colour management

I can see how the above may or may not be in a Leica wiki but those decisions have to be made I think.

[mfunnell]

That makes sense - or, at the very least, its better than the software default page.

What I'd like to see (perhaps here, but longer term somewhere like the community portal page) is an outline of what this wiki is for, how it differs from (or is related to) other wikis like wikipedia or camerapedia etc. and what the ground-rules for articles might be.

For example, an encyclopedia-style article on the M3 might belong on wikipedia (aside from illustrating it with a photo of an M2 - something I corrected). But a how-to article on, say, repairing it or even just using it might belong "here". I don't know. And that's the problem.

Perhaps those who set up the "Leicapedia" might want to set some of that out, somewhere...

...Mike

[ericperlberg]

Originally Posted by mfunnell

That makes sense - or, at the very least, its better than the software default page.

What I'd like to see (perhaps here, but longer term somewhere like the community portal page) is an outline of what this wiki is for, how it differs from (or is related to) other wikis like wikipedia or camerapedia etc. and what the ground-rules for articles might be.

For example, an encyclopedia-style article on the M3 might belong on wikipedia (aside from illustrating it with a photo of an M2 - something I corrected). But a how-to article on, say, repairing it or even just using it might belong "here". I don't know. And that's the problem.

Perhaps those who set up the "Leicapedia" might want to set some of that out, somewhere...

...Mike

All good points I think. I'm a big fan of wikipedia. But I think the level of detail that forum members might be interested in may well be outside that generally found at wikipedia. I'm thinking of, for example, the Color Management Wiki which itself is quite robust. One might not want such a long article in the wikipedia to cover all the info in the subtopics at the colormanagement wiki. There's also the recent issue of manufacturers or their employees fiddling with info in their own or competitiors products. It's great that there's software that may catch these creeps but frustrating that some people stoop that low. Could it happen here too? Maybe, but not perhaps if each wiki post here had to be done as a member of the forum. Then the tracking ability of the wiki could help us find misusers who could loose their forum reg and thus wiki posting ability.

The other references you cite are pretty basic or cover broader topics. Leicapedia is nothing but a joomla shell at the moment. I would think a wiki here would be logically more useful than a free floating one if they're both just starting.

Camerapedia is nice, hadn't seen that before. On the one hand its really nice that it exists but again I find its initial set-up conditions to make it less than user friendly for leica specific information. I had no trouble (clicking on the L in the alpha listing) in finding information on an M4 but I couldn't figure out how to find info on a M mount 35 1.4 asph summilux without just searching for it. It's not under Leica, not under lenses and not under summilux alphabetical listings.

One of the issues which your question brings up is how good information from the forum would find its way into the wiki. I suspect that most people are willing to toss some info into the forum but won't take the time to re-post in the wiki making it less than useful. A tool for signaling someone (perhaps a volunteer team?) that a thread has useful info for the wiki and then that someone or team puts the info into the wiki? Don't know, but I do think the power and uniqueness of a wiki here at L-camera Forum is that essentially the info is being generated here ad hoc by people who generally know what they're talking about.

Unfortunately good info in forums gets lost pretty quickly as threads fall into the great thread heaven. Then searching threads means getting large amounts of posts on the keyword searched for but many of the posts are pretty useless. It's not at all efficient for factual info. If this could be solved, the L-camera Forum could have the best Leica wiki going.

But your fundamental point is a good one. The admin has to sort out what they want and how they see it working. If they don't know then its an exercise in futility. Too bad if that turns out to be true because this could be a great resource.

[admin]

Folks,

thanks for starting the discussion and: You're completely right....

Perhaps it was no good idea to start with the software "installation done" default page - sorry for that. But to be honest: I'm no Leica expert...

I'm a forum expert and photo engineer but I think the community has better ideas how to organize Leica knowledge than I have. Your first posting has proved that ;-)

Go ahead and start with it (including blank pages). In the German version another member started copying content (he created himself partly) from Wikipedia to Leicapaedia. Lots of information around Leitz, Leica and other persons:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...al:Alle_Seiten

In the english Wiki also already existant:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ecial:Allpages

Have fun!

Andreas

[ericperlberg]

If nobody else takes on this task, I'll do the initial setup but I don't feel I have enough knowledge to competently decide on a structure. If others would kick in about how to structure the wiki, I'll do some of the leg work. If nobody posts ideas in over 24-36 hours then I'll go ahead and start the structure I outlined above, but with trepidation.

[ericperlberg]

I see people have already started just putting in random terms on the main page. Too late then to create an initial structure. Ignore my last post. Shame. These things need planning...

[michael_b_elmer]

It would be practical, if one could by typing the relevant info just once log in (and stay logged in on the same computer), not only in the English, but also in the German versions of both the Wikipedia and the discussion fora.

[admin]

Originally Posted by ericperlberg

I see people have already started just putting in random terms on the main page. Too late then to create an initial structure. Ignore my last post. Shame. These things need planning...

Relax - structure in a wiki can be added later:
- We can change page titles later - easy!
- I started a page decribing categories you can add to a page (even more than one) and it will sort in dynamically:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...iki_Categories

Originally Posted by michael_b_elmer

It would be practical, if one could by typing the relevant info just once log in (and stay logged in on the same computer), not only in the English, but also in the German versions of both the Wikipedia and the discussion fora.

I looked very hard to find a solution for that - no way.
Sorry, multple logins this time...

Andreas

[gberger]

In a structured list, I'd add "Projectors."

[ron110n]

Andreas,

May I suggest a complete date release on all serial numbers on Leica Bodies and Lenses starting at Leica 0.
To the latest as much as possible or perhaps updated on each end of the year.

I know Stephen Gandi has one but he's missing on the lenses and some of the screw mount date release are missing.

-Ron

________________
Caveman's Gallery

[admin]

Originally Posted by gberger

In a structured list, I'd add "Projectors."

Yepp, already on my list - I'll publish a complete list of categiories in the near future!

Originally Posted by ron110n

May I suggest a complete date release on all serial numbers on Leica Bodies and Lenses starting at Leica 0.
To the latest as much as possible or perhaps updated on each end of the year.

Hmm, we'll try our best - but I'm not sure if a complete and correct list is really possible...

I'll start with a list, but no one can guarantee that it is complete and correct...

Andreas

[admin]

Here is my proposal for a wiki structure:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...iki_Categories

Please add the appropriate tags to your articles - and to those of other authors.

Any additions or corrections to the structure? Please tell! Uhm - no: Edit...

Andreas