R Lenses on S2 a possibility

[Jack MacDonough]

I too thought the R would be unnecessary until David gave us a different perspective. That we should consider the R a back up camera for the S and a camera more useful for telephoto action than the S can be. As jaapv states, Leica only needs to sell under 10,000 units a year not 100,000.
Jack

[rosuna]

A camera just for telephoto photography is a very risky investment for Leica. Telephoto lenses made by Canon or Nikon are superb, nothing short of amazing. Why Leica then? The S system and M system are different, but the R system must be competitive in price and features.

[rosuna]

Interesting:

CameraQuest Leica M to Micro 4/3 Lens Adaptor

.

[dfarkas]

Originally Posted by rosuna

A camera just for telephoto photography is a very risky investment for Leica. Telephoto lenses made by Canon or Nikon are superb, nothing short of amazing. Why Leica then? The S system and M system are different, but the R system must be competitive in price and features.

Not a camera just for telephoto....

Obviously, the next R camera will be a full camera system that will take existing (legacy) R lenses as well as new AF R lenses and the S lenses with an adapter. So, the R will make an excellent supplement to an S system, where the tele ability is a bit limited.

David

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by dfarkas

Not a camera just for telephoto....

Obviously, the next R camera will be a full camera system that will take existing (legacy) R lenses as well as new AF R lenses and the S lenses with an adapter. So, the R will make an excellent supplement to an S system, where the tele ability is a bit limited.

David

It will be pretty impressive if Leica can release the S2 on schedule and follow up with all of the lenses for it within a reasonable time. And then before long also make a state of the art FF 35mm AF body and provide a comprehensive selection of lenses for that too. All the while making the M8 and its lens line.

[SJP]

Originally Posted by AlanG

It will be pretty impressive if Leica can release the S2 on schedule and follow up with all of the lenses for it within a reasonable time. And then before long also make a state of the art FF 35mm AF body and provide a comprehensive selection of lenses for that too. All the while making the M8 and its lens line.

Yep, there is life in the old dog yet. I am looking forward to seeing what they can achieve.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by dfarkas

Not a camera just for telephoto....

Obviously, the next R camera will be a full camera system that will take existing (legacy) R lenses as well as new AF R lenses and the S lenses with an adapter. So, the R will make an excellent supplement to an S system, where the tele ability is a bit limited.

David

I find this cropped camera= telephoto camera (not just for Leica, for any brand) a bit limited. I fail to see the difference between using a pre-cropped camera as opposed to a larger sensor camera and cropping the image down to the same size as the smaller camera, assuming the same pixel density, as long as the focal length is the same. It is all the stronger for Nikon and Canon, as there is no difference in focal length between the ff cameras and the smaller-sensor cameras. At least Leica can offer the Modul system as longer than the longest S2 lens (assuming they will start production again sometime)

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by jaapv

I find this cropped camera= telephoto camera (not just for Leica, for any brand) a bit limited. I fail to see the difference between using a pre-cropped camera as opposed to a larger sensor camera and cropping the image down to the same size as the smaller camera, assuming the same pixel density, as long as the focal length is the same.

True. But right now the pixel density is still much higher in the smaller sensors. The density of the 15 megapixel 1.6 crop 500D would work out to be about 39 megapixels on a full frame camera. A 12 megapixel 4/3rds has the density of a full frame 48 megapixel sensor. So there is still a way for full frame sensors to go in terms of getting the resolution from at least some of the current lenses.

[rosuna]

Originally Posted by jaapv

I find this cropped camera= telephoto camera (not just for Leica, for any brand) a bit limited. I fail to see the difference between using a pre-cropped camera as opposed to a larger sensor camera and cropping the image down to the same size as the smaller camera, assuming the same pixel density, as long as the focal length is the same. It is all the stronger for Nikon and Canon, as there is no difference in focal length between the ff cameras and the smaller-sensor cameras. At least Leica can offer the Modul system as longer than the longest S2 lens (assuming they will start production again sometime)

There is an optical difference. It is much easier to design lenses for smaller light circles (smaller formats), and those lenses are also cheaper and smaller.

[wildlightphoto]

The trade-off for high pixel density is poorer high-ISO noise performance and I find high ISO performance a significant factor in using long lenses, unless you're working from a tripod with static subjects.

Ansel Adams' words are as true now as when he was alive: the best camera is the biggest one you're willing to carry.

[charlesphoto99]

Originally Posted by Jack MacDonough

I too thought the R would be unnecessary until David gave us a different perspective. That we should consider the R a back up camera for the S and a camera more useful for telephoto action than the S can be. As jaapv states, Leica only needs to sell under 10,000 units a year not 100,000.
Jack

For a pro the only true backup is the same again. If your client wants a certain look and you have everything dialed in, do you want to suddenly start trying to reproduce the look with a cropped camera?

[wildlightphoto]

Originally Posted by charlesphoto99

For a pro the only true backup is the same again. If your client wants a certain look and you have everything dialed in, do you want to suddenly start trying to reproduce the look with a cropped camera?

Recalling Ansel Adams' response when asked what the best camera is (the biggest one you're willing to carry) the S2 with a lens comparable to the 560mm f/6.8 Telyt will probably be more than I'm willing to carry. Since I'm willing to carry the R8/DMR and 560 on day-long hikes over mountains & brush & such, I expect the R10 will fit the 'willing to carry' criteria.

[rosuna]

Originally Posted by Jack MacDonough

I too thought the R would be unnecessary until David gave us a different perspective. That we should consider the R a back up camera for the S and a camera more useful for telephoto action than the S can be. As jaapv states, Leica only needs to sell under 10,000 units a year not 100,000.
Jack

The new digital R camera must be carefully designed. The price must be similar to that of the M8-M9, and the body size very small (the Nikon D700, Sony a900 or Canon 5DMII sizes are the upper limits).

The lenses must be different to those for the S system (or even M system). I think AF zoom lenses are the most reasonable target. Leica can't sustain 30 different lenses for a particular system (and they have 3, M, R and S), so they should design the lens portfolio taking in consideration the potential user (firstly, amateur photographers), and price of the system.

The Nikon system is a good model for Leica: 3 standard zooms (say from 16mm to 180mm), a few teles (depending on real demand)... just the gap that the M and S systems (mostly primes in the "conventional" focal length range) cannot fill.

Leica doesn't need Canon or Nikon's sales numbers. The scale is much different.

[georg]

I was told AF-varios are the first "AF-R"-lenses to come with the introduction of the "R10".

I think each lens-line-up will have it's unique strengths:

S-System: HQ-primes
M-System: compact and fast WA
R-System: varios and a modul-system

[dfarkas]

I still believe that high-quality AF primes would be crucial to the success of the R system, in addition to fast AF zooms (varios).

For me, I'd probably opt for a 35 f/2, 50 f/1.4, and 90 f/2 combo rather than a 24-70 or 35-70 f/2.8 zoom (imagine an AF version of the Vario-Elmarit ASPH). I just like the compactness and extra speed of primes.

Many of the existing MF R lenses are truly exceptional like the 19 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, 90 f/2 APO, 100 f/2.8 Macro, 180 f/2.8 APO, 280 f/4 APO, etc. Some lenses might benefit from redesigns like the 24 and 35 (although I personally love the 35 f/2 R). If Leica can take what they have learned with the new M and S lenses and apply that technology to R, they could have an amazing line-up.

Sure, the great existing MF R lenses will work perfectly fine on the next body, but imagine having brand new 24, 35, and 50 Summilux ASPH lenses. Or the equivalent of the 75 f/2 APO for R.

We'll have to see what happens.

David