Digital Reflex S2 - please post all thoughts here...

[alessandro]

Originally Posted by freecitizen

Maybe Leica could make the S2 with a 45x45mm square sensor .... use as much as possible of the lenses circle of projection. Now that would really be a fantastic camera. And certainly one in the eye for Hassleblad.

mhhh, maybe not the right choice, see here:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...4-3-2-3-a.html

[mgcd]

Originally Posted by freecitizen

Maybe Leica could make the S2 with a 45x45mm square sensor .... use as much as possible of the lenses circle of projection. Now that would really be a fantastic camera. And certainly one in the eye for Hassleblad.

It's already set at 30x45mm, a new format in the 3:2 Leica tradition.

[thrid]

Originally Posted by wildlightphoto

I have only one thought: I'll volunteer to beta-test the camera with the 350 APO

You should talk to them about being a beta tester. Seriously.
Everyone in Leica Land knows your work.

[leebert]

Recent WSJ article sketched out Leica's declining revenues and relative marginalization in the digital world; there's little doubt that this is a bet-the-company product introduction.

In short: where this product goes, so goes Leica.

Good luck, guys.

lt

[dkpeterborough]

Originally Posted by mgcd

It's already set at 30x45mm, a new format in the 3:2 Leica tradition.

There is an interesting sentence in the "Leica's big S-urprise" article in this weeks BJP stating:

'The S2, which has has a 37.5 million pixel resolution, is the first of many future models that will form part of the S system.'

... as if BJP believes that the S system will will be developed very much more?

Furthermore, the same article quotes Jonathan Eastland as saying:

'This appears to be a business decision to try and capitalise on what Leica believes is a smaller niche medium format market ... From a business point of view, its a good tactic if you put yourself slightly out of the [typical] sector. But this is also a finite market. They could sell 1000 of them a year if they're lucky. Leica could probably develop other systems for semi-pros and amateurs. It's not rocket science to use the same sensor or a cut-down version of it in smaller bodies, but the pricing will be a key point. It's going to be expensive.'

... as if he believes the same as regards system development.

But maybe 1000 S2 body sales per year is a bit pessimistic? ... Because surely any serious professional users will ordering more than just one S2 body each?

Cheers

dunk

[ptomsu]

I think the numbers of Pro's and demanding amateurs wanting and finally buying such a camera are far beyond 1000 a year.

[dkpeterborough]

Originally Posted by ptomsu

I think the numbers of Pro's and demanding amateurs wanting and finally buying such a camera are far beyond 1000 a year.

Agreed ... 1000 per year is c. 20 per week ie 3 or 4 per day ... hardly worth designing a production line for such small numbers ... whereas 50 per day might be ie 250 per week and 12500 per year ... a more respectable target

Cheers

dunk

[georg]

Franke & Heidecke (real Rollei) produces over 120 Hy6 a month.

When the S2 works properly and it will offer the promised perfomance (new AF and up to 2fps = twice as fast as MFDB, best lenses, about 2 stops faster (microlenses give you about one stop, the lenses the other one) but also smaller and more ergonomic) they could sell 2000-5000 units/year!?

[ptomsu]

Originally Posted by georg

Franke & Heidecke (real Rollei) produces over 120 Hy6 a month.

When the S2 works properly and it will offer the promised perfomance (new AF and up to 2fps = twice as fast as MFDB, best lenses, about 2 stops faster (microlenses give you about one stop, the lenses the other one) but also smaller and more ergonomic) they could sell 2000-5000 units/year!?

I am pretty sure that if they price it competitively right they could easily sell around 10000 units a year.

And this price needs to move as market prices move. So if it starts say at €12000.- you should expect you can get it new after 2 years for €6000.- and the next incarnation - say S3 will then sell for the €12000.- Something like that.

Maybe timeframes will be a bit longer and maybe price reduction will be not as dramatic, but I think I am not far from reality if you look to what is happening on the market today. So calculate a reasonable loss in from the beginning - finally the S2 is nothing else than a specialized computer for taking HQ images, but we all know what happens to computer prizes.

[carstenw]

I doubt that Leica is looking to adopt the rapid-fire technological pace of the major Japanese and Korean camera manufacturers. That sort of rapid release and rapid growth is only sustainable as long as the tech is immature, and Leica has never been about immature technology. I suspect that their lifecycle will be much longer, at least 3 years, and maybe even 4-5 years, if not even more. I personally also prefer this. As long as there are exciting new products coming out without pause, it is harder to focus on the important thing: the photos. Only time spent with equipment gives the sort of comfort required to take excellent photos in a sustained kind of way, at least for those of us who have to work at it.

[paulmoore]

Originally Posted by carstenw

I doubt that Leica is looking to adopt the rapid-fire technological pace of the major Japanese and Korean camera manufacturers. That sort of rapid release and rapid growth is only sustainable as long as the tech is immature, and Leica has never been about immature technology. I suspect that their lifecycle will be much longer, at least 3 years, and maybe even 4-5 years, if not even more. I personally also prefer this. As long as there are exciting new products coming out without pause, it is harder to focus on the important thing: the photos. Only time spent with equipment gives the sort of comfort required to take excellent photos in a sustained kind of way, at least for those of us who have to work at it.

I totally agree with this..I think we are seeing the topping out of mp's and new models in the dslr are going to top out as well.. only one way to go then.. bigger. until you hit the ceiling for that as well.. nobody needs more than 37 mp in a hand holdable camera..
or any camera, really. let them take a 3-5 years to refine the other aspects of the system.. af, fps.. software.. lenses!!..I am sure doug would like to see a 1.4x for that 350mm.
tilt/shift adapter..the camera has the basics covered for the next 5 years in my eyes, it is just the extra lens options I would like to see developed..or course as well as the r10.

[wildlightphoto]

Originally Posted by paulmoore

..I am sure doug would like to see a 1.4x for that 350mm..