Leica R8 high shutter speed vertical line on negatives.

[jip]

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Hello guys,

 

I've been shooting with the R8 for quite some time, but since a while with a faster lens (Summilux) instead of a (Elmar) so 1.4 instead of 4 as the maximum aperture.

 

Thus I'm probably also using the faster shutter speed more often. 4000-8000th of a second.

 

Now what has happened a few times now is that I see a blue vertical gradient kind of line on the left side of my negatives always on the same spot. When the negative is scanned and turned positive colour wise the colour is a bright red orange like colour.

 

I will post a few examples later, does anyone know what the problem is? I have no problem whatsoever with 'normal' shutter speeds and think it only happens at 1/4000 or faster! But it would be a waste to not be able to use those speeds.

 

Thanks!

[jankap]

I believe the shutter runs vertically. So it is not the shutter probably.

The changes are 1. another lens (second hand?), 2. a much larger aperture and 3. more weight.

I assume a small light leak anyhow. Please experiment keeping the camera in heavy sunlight and the same time in the dark before taking a similar test picture.

Can it be, that light leaks through the Lux and the camera mount at one side?

Does it change if you take a picture holding the camera upside down?

Jan

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[jip]

Jan,

 

Thanks yes I thought about the shutter and I already thought it would be strange because the line is vertical and not horizontal.

 

here are some photos where you can see what I mean, the two similar photos were taken with the Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/80-200mm so it also happens with that lens but not as strong as the other picture which is with the Summilux-R 80

 

it's always at the same spot on the photo, and always the same, doesn't matter if I hold it in portrait or landscape orientation.

 

It's strange since the two similar photos were only taken a second apart from each other with the same settings....

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[mmradman]

Jim, DMR back or film? If anomaly is vertical could it be sensor?

[jip]

It's film... haven't seen it on the DMR yet!

 

HERE is a shutter actuation video I made today... at 500fps

[mmradman]

One suggestion, try closing viewfinder shutter and see if you getting any light leaks that way, second suggestion shoot with lens cap on to determine that light is coming onto film.

 

Still can't work out logic why getting light leaks at short exposures and ok at longer ones. I don't have any film camera problems lately, still very curious. Maybe it is digital conspiracy.

[jankap]

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Inspect the film carefully, if it is damaged. Perhaps an undeveloped piece of film.

Test the same shutter speed with and without mirror lock-up.

Jan

[jip]

To answer the questions thus far:

 

The film is not damaged what so ever, the red line is always at the exact same spot on the film, sometime it's more obvious than other times.

[pop]

The color of the "line" is somewhat reminiscent of that of a red LED light. Are there any LEDs within the camera case, such as in the DX scanner or the illumination of the back display? Does the camera add any kind of data to the image? Is there any chance that any light might reach the film through the film information window in the camera back?

[jip]

Hey Pop, the DX code scanner is with metal contacts, the viewfinder LED's are green on my R8. I don't think there is a red LED on the camera apart from the self timer LED which I haven't even ever used.

 

It's a real mystery where the red line comes from.

 

 

#KNOWNFACTS:

It's always red

It's always on the same spot

It's not on every Photo, or at least not always noticeable.

It has happened on different rolls of film, the area on the film is not damaged, and shows blueish on the negatives. Making it red in the positive.

[pop]

It's film... haven't seen it on the DMR yet!

 

HERE is a shutter actuation video I made today... at 500fps

I think there ought to be about four exposures in that video which show the shutter partially open, but I lack an app to view single frames.

 

It might be worthwhile to see if there is any kind of substance on the edge of one of the curtains with a width of perhaps 5mm. Since the line or strip becomes more prominent for shorter exposure times, it is quite possible that this is because of the narrower gap between the curtains.

[jankap]

Hey Pop, the DX code scanner is with metal contacts, the viewfinder LED's are green on my R8. I don't think there is a red LED on the camera apart from the self timer LED which I haven't even ever used.

#KNOWNFACTS:

It's always red

It's always on the same spot

It's not on every Photo, or at least not always noticeable.

It has happened on different rolls of film, the area on the film is not damaged, and shows blueish on the negatives. Making it red in the positive.

 

only with film, not with sensor

only at a narrow shutter slit

in the middle stronger than at the top/bottom

 

My theory is, that the film is blown up by the airflow and reaches the shutter. And is being grinded somewhat. What color layer is the topmost?

Jan

[wagner]

Hi Jip!

 

to me, it looks like the "filmwindow" is leaking light. Guess, you are using the high speed's in bright light situation and that might be an explanation for the light fall especially at this speeds. To test, close the window with black tape.

 

Don' think it has anything to do with the shutter.

 

regards,

 

Torsten

[masjah]

Hi Jip!

 

to me, it looks like the "filmwindow" is leaking light. Guess, you are using the high speed's in bright light situation and that might be an explanation for the light fall especially at this speeds. To test, close the window with black tape.

 

Don' think it has anything to do with the shutter.

 

regards,

 

Torsten

 

I agree that this is indeed a possibility. With my R8 (but not my R9) I found that in very bright light, with the camera standing a while on a tripod, there was a leak at the little window at the back where you read the film ISO. I presumed it was the foam not sealing against the film cassette. My window is now simply covered with a bit of black tape - case solved. (If I forget what film ISO I've got in, checking the LCD at the back is easier anyway.)

[jip]

I agree that this is indeed a possibility. With my R8 (but not my R9) I found that in very bright light, with the camera standing a while on a tripod, there was a leak at the little window at the back where you read the film ISO. I presumed it was the foam not sealing against the film cassette. My window is now simply covered with a bit of black tape - case solved. (If I forget what film ISO I've got in, checking the LCD at the back is easier anyway.)

 

But did it look like the red lines on my photos? always at the same spot etc... I think if it's a light leak it happens before or after the photo is being exposed...

[wagner]

Yes, on my R4 it looked - more or less - like your stripe. Obviously, not every negative was affected in the same way. It depended in how quick the film was transported and what the weatercondition were. A quick shoot film in dark situation would probably not get any visible light affection at all.

 

On my R4 had to be replaced after 18 years. Your R8 is probably as old.....

 

Just ask Leica for the lightseal - you might get the even for free - and replace it. Easy to do.

 

regards,

 

Torsten

[masjah]

But did it look like the red lines on my photos? always at the same spot etc... I think if it's a light leak it happens before or after the photo is being exposed...

 

It was always in the same place, but I can't honestly remember exactly where. I agree with Torsten about weasther conditions and how long the camera was out of the bag, so with mine, not every frame was affected. But it's worth half a pennyworth of black tape to see if the problem disappears!

[adan]

The rectangular foam seal that surrounds the film-type display window is prone to aging and losing its flexibility and sealing capability (in all cameras that have one: Leica, Minolta, etc. etc.).

 

Light leaks in, sideways onto the film where it exits the cassette, thus the cassette lip itself shades or protects part of the film from light, leading to a band with a sharpish edge.

 

If the effect seen is variable, it just means the light leak is very low intensity, and takes a few seconds/minutes to produce an increasing amount of visible fog.

 

If several shots are taken in quick succession, some of the frames may not stay in the leakage zone (roughly speaking, between the cassette and the shutter) long enough to show an effect, whereas a frame that sits, waiting to be taken, for minutes or hours, will show a strong fog mark.

 

ISO plays a role in how often and how quickly the fog will become noticeable. As does the ambient light. And of course, the film type, since the light leak is from the rear, and must penetrate whatever anti-halation backing the film has (the reason the back of film always looks darker than the emulsion side). The anti-halation coating also contributes the red tint.

[jip]

Forgot to note, it was the film cassette viewing window. I asked Leica for new seals, received them for free in the mail 2 weeks later. Everything fine now!

 

Love using the camera again.

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Hallo,

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