Super-Angulon R 21/4

[dkCambridgeshire]

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Today I used a Super Angulon R 21/4 on my R9/DMR at the Peterborough Classic Car Show. Knowing the lens' reputation for being 'average' at wider apertures, it was stopped down to between f8 and f11 - and these two images were taken at f9.5.

 

The lens was an Ebay purchase some years ago but has not been harnessed until recently when commenced using my DMR.

 

 

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The first image is OK even though taken partially against the light … but the second shows pronounced flare and ghost diaphragm imaging even though the Sun was not in the field of view.

 

 

 

 

The lens is a 60s design and unfortunately does not have its Leitz 12506 hood.

 

So … have to decide:

 

a) Source a 12506 hood

 

Adapt a third party hood (Cokin?)

 

… but unlikely a hood would completely remedy the propensity to flare?

 

c) Consider buying: (i) 19mm R Version II, or, (ii) 21-35mm Vario Elmar Asph. Latter appeals but is typically £1800 - £2100 … and have not seen a 19mm Version II for weeks … and given the demand might also be very expensive.

 

d) Consider a 24mm - but not keen as only equivalent to 33mm - and performance opinions vary.

 

Initially I'll probably try and rig up a large size Cokin hood temporarily ... in similar lighting and see if an efficient hood will remedy the flare and ghosting … but do not have high hopes of improvement.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited September 14, 2014 by dkpeterborough

[dkCambridgeshire]

Compare this image taken in the same lighting with R9/DMR and 28-90mm Vario Elmarit:

 

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The late 60s Schneider designed 21mm Super Angulon has 10 elements and is probably not multi-coated; the early Noughties 28-90mm Vario Elmarit has 11 elements and is a pure Leica design.

 

dunk

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[sc_rufctr]

Your Super-Angulon is certainly not perfect but considering it's age it's still very decent!

Please post more if you have them.

 

I've been thinking about the F4 version for my own R bodies. (R6.2 and R8-DMR)

[dkCambridgeshire]

Your Super-Angulon is certainly not perfect but considering it's age it's still very decent!

 

Please post more if you have them.

 

I've been thinking about the F4 version for my own R bodies. (R6.2 and R8-DMR)

 

I have more but all in RAW and require PP … might go back to the car show again today (two day event) and try for a few more shots at show close time when the cars are not so cramped.

 

dunk

[pgk]

I had a 19mm v.1 which suffered from much the same problem, even with the hood. The v.2 wasn't nearly so problematic. I suspect that you will find a fair amount of veiling flare dropping contrast too and whilst the hood may help, it certainly wasn't a cure on the 19mm. As the later lenses have escalated in price a hood would be a far cheaper option though. If you want to persevere it might we worth trying one of those shades on a bendable arm to minimise any strong light sources which might hit the front element though outside the field of view but not entirely blocked by the hood, or you might also think about adapting something like an old Hasselblad Pro Shade.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Thanks for the suggestion Paul - somewhere I have a H'blad hood and it would be very much more efficient than the Leitz 12506 hood. However, just found the 12506 hood which had gone missing and was presumed lost … so can try it to see if it at least remedies the ghost imaging. Unfortunately, the 12506 hood does not have the 'wheel' enabling use of a polariser - but maybe the lens is too wide for use with a regular thickness polarising filter without vignetting on full frame?

 

Cheers

 

dunk

Edited September 14, 2014 by dkpeterborough

[dkCambridgeshire]

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After finding the hood I went back for Day 2 of the P'bor Classic Car Show and used only the 1970 vintage 21mm Super Angulon. Results are better with the hood:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/346388-peterborough-classic-car-show-sept-14-a.html

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[dkCambridgeshire]

Also succeeded in fitting a bellows hood via a Cokin filter holder. A slot was filed in the Cokin holder to permit one of the 21mm S Angulon hood pins to pass through it; 2 modified Q tips take up free play by bending around the inner circumference of the Cokin holder.

 

After taking a series of images of the sky including the Sun at various apertures there was just one at f22 which showed ghost imaging of the lens diaphragm - all other images showed no ghosting.

 

With additional modification the bellows hood should be OK and prevent ghosting at medium apertures when the lens is used contre jour.

 

Not sure why one f22 image shows ghosting but the other does not - but these are taken under extreme conditions - and the lens is not multicoated and is 44 years young

 

 

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f22 and no ghosting … There is some vignetting but it can be eliminated by pushing back the bellows slightly.

 

The lens is being used at an equivalent 29mm focal length so the bellows hood would not work on 21mm full frame.

 

 

 

f22 … 3 or maybe 4 ghost images of the lens diaphragm but they are not as pronounced as the ghost images discovered last Saturday in the goat meat stall pics.

 

 

 

f6.8 and no ghosting

 

 

The sensor needs cleaning.

 

The bellows hood will be tried again in more normal conditions and at medium apertures - and results compared with those using the regular hood.

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

dunk

Edited September 16, 2014 by dkpeterborough

[dkCambridgeshire]

Your Super-Angulon is certainly not perfect but considering it's age it's still very decent!

 

Please post more if you have them.

 

I've been thinking about the F4 version for my own R bodies. (R6.2 and R8-DMR)

 

Some more R9/DMR 21/4 images taken last Sunday.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/technology-industry/346499-interesting-leyland-car-peterborough-classic-vehicle.html

 

dunk

[pgk]

For my M8 I used to cut out a piece of black card so that it fitted onto the front of the existing (correct) lens hood but effectively 'cropped' the field of view by the crop factor (took a few attempts to get it right). You may find this to be another and rather more compact solution - the card can be held in place with black gaffer tape and removed very easily. I suspect a bit of veiling flare in your sky photos (the shadows look lighter than I'd expect, but this is hardly surprising - still looks far better than my 19mm v.1 did).

[dkCambridgeshire]

For my M8 I used to cut out a piece of black card so that it fitted onto the front of the existing (correct) lens hood but effectively 'cropped' the field of view by the crop factor (took a few attempts to get it right). You may find this to be another and rather more compact solution - the card can be held in place with black gaffer tape and removed very easily. I suspect a bit of veiling flare in your sky photos (the shadows look lighter than I'd expect, but this is hardly surprising - still looks far better than my 19mm v.1 did).

 

Thanks Paul … that's something else to try too and compare results.

 

dunk

[gvaliquette]

Dunk,

 

See my comment on your photo thread:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/346388-peterborough-classic-car-show-sept-14-a.html

 

Guy

[dkCambridgeshire]

After much consideration decided to buy a 21-35mm R lens to replace the 21mm S Angulon - one was listed last night by a well known d ... d… dealer at a good price. So hoping the 21mm S Angulon will help fund latest acquisition. The S. Angulon is a fairly good lens but for contre jour shots it does not instil confidence - even with a hood.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[Nick_S]

After much consideration decided to buy a 21-35mm R lens to replace the 21mm S Angulon

...

I enjoyed this series of example photographs -- the rectangular flare artefacts from the 4-point diaphragm seem to be a "feature" of this lens. It would be interesting if you could post some pictures from the 21-35mm R lens for comparison. I guess you might get get less issues with flare from the more modern lens, with sharper images, but more distortion at the corresponding 21mm setting.

 

Nick

[dkCambridgeshire]

I enjoyed this series of example photographs -- the rectangular flare artefacts from the 4-point diaphragm seem to be a "feature" of this lens. It would be interesting if you could post some pictures from the 21-35mm R lens for comparison. I guess you might get get less issues with flare from the more modern lens, with sharper images, but more distortion at the corresponding 21mm setting.

 

Nick

 

HI Nick, Last weekend I tried the 21-35mm R lens for the first time and posted three of the images on the forum http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/technology-industry/347545-steam-roller-agricultural-engine.html The event was exceptionally crowded so other images have too distracting backgrounds - but the lens is excellent. The actual zoomed focal length setting is not transmitted but the trailer pics would have been taken at 21mm.

 

After retrieving the 21mm Super Angulon R lens from several years' storage I discovered it is coping with 'Schneideritis' - but the symptoms are not immediately apparent unless examined from a certain angle. The anomaly has no effect on images but it looks rather odd. The contrast has been increased in this picture to emphasise the anomaly - it shows the actual defect in my lens.

 

 

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At first sight it looks like/resembles fungus but on closer examination the 'spots' are only on the the plated/painted lens baffles between the elements - thus the paint or plating has degraded. In this case the degradation is behind the second lens element so will require removal of at least two lens elements to access the affected baffles. When I approached one well known repairer to enquire if they would tackle the job they advised would be best to 'leave it' as there is some risk involved in dismantling this particular lens. There is another repairer who might be prepared to remedy the defect but I have decided to list it on the forum's Buy and Sell section today.

 

'Schneideritis' is a fairly well documented symptom and similar cases can be accessed via Google.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[dkCambridgeshire]

HI Nick, Last weekend I tried the 21-35mm R lens for the first time and posted three of the images on the forum http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/technology-industry/347545-steam-roller-agricultural-engine.html The event was exceptionally crowded so other images have too distracting backgrounds - but the lens is excellent. The actual zoomed focal length setting is not transmitted but the trailer pics would have been taken at 21mm.

 

After retrieving the 21mm Super Angulon R lens from several years' storage I discovered it is coping with 'Schneideritis' - but the symptoms are not immediately apparent unless examined from a certain angle. The anomaly has no effect on images but it looks rather odd. The contrast has been increased in this picture to emphasise the anomaly - it shows the actual defect in my lens.

 

 

[ATTACH]459257[/ATTACH]

 

 

At first sight it looks like/resembles fungus but on closer examination the 'spots' are only on the the plated/painted lens baffles between the elements - thus the paint or plating has degraded. In this case the degradation is behind the second lens element so will require removal of at least two lens elements to access the affected baffles. When I approached one well known repairer to enquire if they would tackle the job they advised would be best to 'leave it' as there is some risk involved in dismantling this particular lens. There is another repairer who might be prepared to remedy the defect but I have decided to list it on the forum's Buy and Sell section today.

 

'Schneideritis' is a fairly well documented symptom and similar cases can be accessed via Google.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

 

Correction … 'Schneideritis' is in fact degradation of the lens' element 'edge paint' - the edges of the lens elements being painted prior to assembly. Thus not degradation of the baffle paint as stated previously - and can probably be remedied fairly easily by a competent lens technician/optical engineer. The defect has no effect on the image quality.

 

dunk