do i need a dmr or A7R

[riem]

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i have some R lenses, i used them on a NEX-7. Now i plan to upgrade my camera, which one is better for R lenses, DMR or A7R? Not from feelings just for effect.

 

Thanks:confused:

[steveclem]

If you can afford to drop £2000 on a piece of equipment that may fail any day then go for the DMR but if FF and modernity,a familiar UI and current product support is important then the Sony is the way ahead.

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[k_g_wolf ✝]

My dealer offered me a s/h DMR for under EUR 2,000 just recently.

2- 3 years ago I would have jumped straight away, now I decided to wait for

the next PHOTOKINA ...

 

That would also be my recommendation in your case, or do as suggested above

- in case nothing else can help to fulfil your plan.

 

 

Best

GEORG

[salvi]

Hi

 

I have a DMR and I am planning to upgrade it to a Sony a7r/a7/a7s...

 

In your case let it be told straight forward...get the Sony..!

 

The DMR is everything else as bad...but if you’re used to the NEX, the a7 is to be chosen...

 

Today I recommend the DMR only if you already have a R8/9 and you still want to shoot in P or T Mode.

 

It is also to consider, that the DMR is old and nobody is repairing it.

 

If you have the money and do not plan to use flash than also the M240 could be a choice.

 

sal

[riem]

thanks for all above, i have a chance to test a dmr for 10 days now.

i will make a decision after that.

[sc_rufctr]

Ergonomics are important and the R8/9 - DMR has not been beaten yet.

Balance and handling of the standard R8/9 are excellent with the additional weight at the bottom the DMR just makes that better.

 

Could I get better results with a full frame Sony? With some images probably yes but the DMR just shines in so many ways. Even though it's old the sensor in the DMR is just breathtaking and I would be also be loosing that fantastic "real life" viewfinder.

 

I really comes down to you but as mentioned above the biggest issue with the DMR is it's age and not being able to get it repaired if something goes wrong.

[graeme_clarke]

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I've had a DMR mated with an R9 since 2005 and, as has been reported many times in many threads, the image quality is great. In particular I've made some very satisfying images with a 21-35, 28-90, 100 f2.8 macro and Elpro, 180 f2.8 and a 280 f4. I print up to 16" by 12" without difficulty.

 

I bought a Sony A7R last January and took both cameras to South Africa to shoot wildlife there, and since then I used the Sony to take photographs at my son's wedding last week. Here are some reflections on the merits and difficulties with each.

 

The R9/DMR is heavy and its lenses too are heavy but they balance well. Focusing with the bright optical viewfinder is reasonably quick. The split image is a little slower than simply using the rest of the screen, especially for faster moving subjects, including people. I've had sharper pictures using the 280 on a monopod than with the kit on a tripod where I think some wobble takes place. With a 280 + 2X converter, images from a tripod mounted shots are poor. A monopod or better still a beanbag works acceptably well.

 

With the same lenses mounted on the A7R (I have a Novoflex adapter and the tripod mounting ring) the kit is still heavy - because the lenses are heavy. (I went for the A7R because of its larger sensor and the fact that the case is alloy and stronger at the front so less likely to flex with heavy lenses attached). After experimenting with shutter speeds and auto iso I found photographing animals with the 280 and 2X off a monopod gave me very sharp images. I set the camera to shutter priority, 1/1000s, F4 (that is f8 with the converter) and auto iso. In dim light the EVF increased in brightness so I could focus easily, but slowly, using the 2x and 10x magnification facility. I got shots I couldn't have taken with the DMR because ISO 400 is its maximum usable - 800 and 1600 is unacceptably noisy - and there is no auto-iso . Hence in aperture priority the DMR's shutter speed would have been too slow to hold. The Sony often went to 6400 or even 12500 when antelopes were in dark scrub and produced good images. When I photographed birds at a distance, the larger sensor of the Sony allowed more cropping than the DMR would have done.

 

At the wedding, the Sony with the 28-90 produced some very nice images, but focusing is slow - the temptation to use the 2x and 10x magnification is too great to pass up. Consequently, apart from posed shots the DMR was better for candid pictures when people are moving about as it is quicker to focus with the optical viewfinder. I haven't processed the files yet so I can't comment on the quality!

 

I now have a good alternative for using Leica R lenses if the DMR dies. Each has advantages and relative weaknesses - having said that I used the DMR for nearly 9 years and never once complained about its shortcomings. The quality of the Leica lenses is the telling factor. A quick comparison between pals of mine using a Canon 5D111 with a 24-70, and another with a Nikon D3 and a 24-70 me with the Sony with the 28-90 - all set at 70mm and f5.6 - showed the R lens produced the most acute unprocessed RAW images.

 

Both the DMR and the Sony will deliver great images because the lenses are great. At the end of the day, the weight of the lenses makes both sets of kit heavy to carry around. Each has advantages or presents difficulties. Without knowing what lenses you have, faced with your choice with the ones I have I would go for the full frame sensor of the A7R and a Novoflex or Metabones adapter now. If the Leica T had been available in January would I have gone for it with an EVF? I don't know... Decisions, decisions!

 

Whichever way you jump, enjoy the photography...

 

Best wishes,

 

Graeme

[stuny]

Graeme -

 

I thought that the last firmware upgrade to the DMR increased the usable ISO one stop to 800. Am I remembering wrong?

[jaapv]

No, that is correct. 800 is fine, especially with the current raw conversion tools.

[graeme_clarke]

Hello Stuny and Jaap,

 

You are both right about ISO 800 but I find the correction in Lightroom or Photoshop still leaves a bit of noise - it's about the same as the Sony A7R at 12500 which is 5 stops - it's a big advantage to keep a fast shutter speed when the focal length is very long and animals and birds don't stay still for long! I must invest in effective noise reduction software - any advice?

 

Best wishes,

 

Graeme

[sc_rufctr]

"riem" It comes down to you.

 

What do you want to own? A Sony or a Leica? It's as simple as that.

[kafenio]

It's a bit like preferring that good 'ol 386DX over a brand new macbook air.

Edited May 6, 2014 by kafenio

[sc_rufctr]

It's a bit like preferring that good 'ol 386DX over a brand new macbook air.

 

True and you know some people may actully get more use from a 386DX than a Macbook Air.

[steveclem]

True and you know some people may actully get more use from a 386DX than a Macbook Air.

They'll never get away with admitting that to some on here.....

It depends how much of a cachet you put on a label in that scenario.

[james.liam]

I have a stable of R's (28 Elmarit v.2, 90 AA, 100 Makro, 180 Elmarit APO, 280 Telyt APO) and almost picked up an a7 but for my concerns about the mount flex. The a7R, though appealing in its own right, has serious shutter vibration issues at critical shutter speeds, objectively demonstrated by reliable sources diglloyd blog - Update on Sony A7R Shutter Vibration.

 

Until such time as Sony creates a fix for this, I am loathe to consider the a7R as the long-awaited 'R' solution, and while excellent in its own right the a7 is not as robust in construction for some of these heavier lenses.

[sc_rufctr]

I have a stable of R's (28 Elmarit v.2, 90 AA, 100 Makro, 180 Elmarit APO, 280 Telyt APO) and almost picked up an a7 but for my concerns about the mount flex. The a7R, though appealing in its own right, has serious shutter vibration issues at critical shutter speeds, objectively demonstrated by reliable sources diglloyd blog - Update on Sony A7R Shutter Vibration.

 

Until such time as Sony creates a fix for this, I am loathe to consider the a7R as the long-awaited 'R' solution, and while excellent in its own right the a7 is not as robust in construction for some of these heavier lenses.

 

All true but as ALWAYS you get what you pay for.

 

Meanwhile... I intend to keep my R8-DMR until either me or it dies

[salvi]

Hello James

 

I bought an A7 because of the shutter problems of the A7r...

However the construction of the A7 in my view should not be a problem with the heavy R - Lenses.

You simply should have in mind, that the lens holds the camera and not the camera the lens...

 

 

Sal

 

 

I have a stable of R's (28 Elmarit v.2, 90 AA, 100 Makro, 180 Elmarit APO, 280 Telyt APO) and almost picked up an a7 but for my concerns about the mount flex. The a7R, though appealing in its own right, has serious shutter vibration issues at critical shutter speeds, objectively demonstrated by reliable sources diglloyd blog - Update on Sony A7R Shutter Vibration.

 

Until such time as Sony creates a fix for this, I am loathe to consider the a7R as the long-awaited 'R' solution, and while excellent in its own right the a7 is not as robust in construction for some of these heavier lenses.

[k-hawinkler]

Yes, there is shutter shock with the A7R.

I certainly have experienced it, primarily with long R lenses and portrait mode.

However, with a little bit of insight and care it also produces terrific images. :-)

[Peter Bailer]

I have a R8 with DMR and a number of lenses from 24 to APO 4x280 including Apo Extenders 1.4 and 2.

I bought recently a NEX 6 with Standard Zoom lens, for always being with you.

I have also the M9 with lenses from 15 to135mm.

I bought the Novoflex adapters for R to M and M to NEX..

This way I can use all the M and R lenses on the NEX if a crop of 1.5 is acceptable.

I found with the mirrorless solution a great advantage in particular with the Apo 280, Apo 180 Apo 100 and the 2x extender:

You can adjust the distance more accuratly with the mirrorless screen than with the split image finder of the R8 as it gets darker and more difficult to adjust.

 

regards Peter from Switzerland

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[topoxforddoc]

Focussing with a microprism or split screen is hard in low light. I use the plain ground glass screen on my two DMRs, which is bright and contrasty in low light - perfect for my concert shots.