sc_rufctr Posted February 4, 2014 Share #1 Posted February 4, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just some thoughts about the DMR... I'm really enjoying mine but I feel compelled to ask some questions. How did they ever do it? Lots and lots of development which must have been EXPENSIVE and then it was only on the market for two years with less than 3,000 units sold. I doubt they made a profit. Did they even break even with the DMR? Meanwhile all these years later mine still works perfectly and the results are still of a very high standard when compared to anything on the market right now. That just boggles the mind. How is that even possible using and "old" sensor? The "girls" washing up. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221452-leica-dmr-how-did-they-ever-do-it/?do=findComment&comment=2525098'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Hi sc_rufctr, Take a look here Leica DMR... How did they ever do it?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Sandokan Posted February 4, 2014 Share #2 Posted February 4, 2014 Well, they were selling for around $7k when they discontinued (the M8 was cheaper at the time), so that still makes $21m revenue. I imagine they planned to break even on the first run and to have all the profits on future runs. The fact that it took them longer (years) to sell than originally estimated meant that by the time of the second run, technology had moved on and these were out of date. From that people who know the manufacturing and retail business can estimate price points along the chain and we can guess the cost of R&D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 4, 2014 Share #3 Posted February 4, 2014 It was (is) and amazing product, a digital back for a film SLR, but as Ravi said, the competition caught up and overtook Leica in the DSLR sector. Their next camera would have to have been a FF DSLR and they decided they couldn't compete, so the whole R line was dropped. In hindsight probably the right decision (I say that as an R user myself). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted February 4, 2014 Share #4 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Imacon, one of their contractors, was bought by Hasselblad, and Hasselblad shut down the relationship with Leica. I thought there were 5,000 made, but perhaps the 3,000 is correct. Barbara tried to find one as a gift for me for 1 1/2 years - Between the slow manufacrturing and the waiting list they were difficult to get when new. The R8 must have been designed planning for a digital back since one can remove the back. At the time I believe the US price was $5,600. Mine still produces wonderful files, but the size and weight are getting too much for me and for our style of carry-on luggage only so I might actually sell it off along with the lenses. If I decide to do that, watch the Forum buy/sell section for them to appear. Edited February 4, 2014 by stuny Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted February 4, 2014 Share #5 Posted February 4, 2014 I like the DMR and the way it works with the R8, here are some shots taken with the R8 DMR + Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70 Macro Leica DMR (Digital-Modul-R) - a set on Flickr 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fexutie Posted February 21, 2014 Share #6 Posted February 21, 2014 Photos of DMR make its own art style. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dritz Posted February 23, 2014 Share #7 Posted February 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I like the DMR and the way it works with the R8, here are some shots taken with the R8 DMR + Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70 Macro Leica DMR (Digital-Modul-R) - a set on Flickr Crap! Your photos make me regret selling mine. I was just having too much difficulty with the manual focus... and film is more forgiving wrt focus. Very nice work. Dean Bozeman, Montana 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torquinian Posted April 18, 2014 Share #8 Posted April 18, 2014 I have R 3 ; 4 ;5 ;6.2 ; and 8.[ iI had a R7 but it went wrong] If there had been a digital R10 I would have bought one, but there is no way that I can afford to change to the current S series. Their next camera would have to have been a FF DSLR and they decided they couldn't compete, so the whole R line was dropped. In hindsight probably the right decision (I say that as an R user myself). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted April 19, 2014 I have R 3 ; 4 ;5 ;6.2 ; and 8.[ iI had a R7 but it went wrong] If there had been a digital R10 I would have bought one, but there is no way that I can afford to change to the current S series. Their next camera would have to have been a FF DSLR and they decided they couldn't compete, so the whole R line was dropped. In hindsight probably the right decision (I say that as an R user myself). You're probably right about the R10 but the thought of such beautiful and dependable lenses becoming orphans is unpleasant to say the least. Meanwhile, I'm still loving my R8-DMR and use it most days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomlianza Posted April 19, 2014 Share #10 Posted April 19, 2014 The R lenses can be used on the M240 with the electronic view finder so they still have a valuable life. I sold most of mine after the M240 came out. I loved my DMR but it was starting to get unreliable so it too was sold.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted April 19, 2014 Share #11 Posted April 19, 2014 The R lenses can be used on the M240 with the electronic view finder so they still have a valuable life. I sold most of mine after the M240 came out. I loved my DMR but it was starting to get unreliable so it too was sold.... Pity the poor bugger you sold it to, did you tell them it was unreliable:p? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted April 20, 2014 Share #12 Posted April 20, 2014 Just some thoughts about the DMR... I'm really enjoying mine but I feel compelled to ask some questions. How did they ever do it? Lots and lots of development which must have been EXPENSIVE and then it was only on the market for two years with less than 3,000 units sold. I doubt they made a profit. Did they even break even with the DMR? Leica has made many cost-no-object items in the past, the 35-70/2.8 R coming immediately to mind. DMR was a stopgap measure for serious/pro R users until the R10 was ready for release. I don't recall the timing but Imacon, the maker of that sensor, was bought by Hasselblad and the sensor source dried up. Or they internally decided at some early point that 'S' would be where the R&D monies would go instead and saw no need to continue to sell them at a loss. The R lenses can be used on the M240 with the electronic view finder so they still have a valuable life. I sold most of mine after the M240 came out If you've ever used the primitive (Olympus-made) EVF in the 240, it becomes readily apparent that the M240 isn't the 'R' solution hoped for--primarily because there isn't any EVF upgrade possible. The wide and normal M's are for the most part superior to the older R's (and much smaller) while the superb APO teles and zooms are somewhat of an ergonomic mismatch to the smallish M240. The 90 R AA is an exception and makes a comfortable fit. I recall that Thorsten Overgaard made a similar observation about the M240/'R' solution in one of his blog entries. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 20, 2014 Share #13 Posted April 20, 2014 By the time the R8, R9 and DMR came out the R system had no future as the market had gone to autofocus anyway. That was Leica's real problem in addition to not being able to be ahead or even competitive with the Nikon F way back in 1959-60. It became a niche market for them from that point on while Nikon, Canon, and others grew and grew and grew. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted April 20, 2014 Share #14 Posted April 20, 2014 Pity the poor bugger you sold it to, did you tell them it was unreliable:p? Memo to self: never buy a used car from ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted April 21, 2014 Share #15 Posted April 21, 2014 By the time the R8, R9 and DMR came out the R system had no future as the market had gone to autofocus anyway. That was Leica's real problem in addition to not being able to be ahead or even competitive with the Nikon F way back in 1959-60. It became a niche market for them from that point on while Nikon, Canon, and others grew and grew and grew. So why does the M system still survive today, compared to the R system the M is primitive. The M system is also Manual focusing and frankly in my opinion not as good as the Reflex system. I have both, and I prefer the Reflex system, only today using my R7 and the 50mm f2 I cannot get over How beautiful that reflex finder is, so clear and precise. I have not come across any camera brand in the 35mm that has a better view finder then the Leicaflex's, R7, R8 or the R9 the Canon 1DX comes close. I cannot understand why so many people on this forum come up with lame excuses and defending Solms That they made the right decisions on discontinuning the R system. I am sure Leica sold more R bodies then their M8, M9, M240 and the S system put together. I have some very good contacts in the photographic industry that have given me some information on Leica sales. The S system is STRUGGLING. The X system is being soundly beaten buy the FUJI X system. The sales of the M system is slowing down, poor unrealiability doesn't help sales. Yes Leica have their mouthpiece's on this forum who will naturally contradict my statement. So lets see what the future holds for dear old Leica. Thank goodness, I still have my R Cameras. Ken. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted April 21, 2014 Share #16 Posted April 21, 2014 ... Imacon, the maker of that sensor, was bought by Hasselblad and the sensor source dried up... Kodak made the sensor, Imacon made the back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted April 21, 2014 Share #17 Posted April 21, 2014 ...and the software, if I recall properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 21, 2014 Share #18 Posted April 21, 2014 So why does the M system still survive today, compared to the R system the M is primitive.The M system is also Manual focusing and frankly in my opinion not as good as the Reflex system. I have both, and I prefer the Reflex system, only today using my R7 and the 50mm f2 I cannot get over How beautiful that reflex finder is, so clear and precise. I have not come across any camera brand in the 35mm that has a better view finder then the Leicaflex's, R7, R8 or the R9 the Canon 1DX comes close. I cannot understand why so many people on this forum come up with lame excuses and defending Solms That they made the right decisions on discontinuning the R system. I am sure Leica sold more R bodies then their M8, M9, M240 and the S system put together. I have some very good contacts in the photographic industry that have given me some information on Leica sales. The S system is STRUGGLING. The X system is being soundly beaten buy the FUJI X system. The sales of the M system is slowing down, poor unrealiability doesn't help sales. Yes Leica have their mouthpiece's on this forum who will naturally contradict my statement. So lets see what the future holds for dear old Leica. Thank goodness, I still have my R Cameras. Ken. Actually the R system was a money pit from beginning to end; the development of the R8/R9 all but finished the company off.The S system is selling more than 100% over the original projection and is a success commercially. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted April 22, 2014 Share #19 Posted April 22, 2014 Actually the R system was a money pit from beginning to end; the development of the R8/R9 all but finished the company off.The S system is selling more than 100% over the original projection and is a success commercially. Well there you are, more good information for the S system. I was also told that 4 S cameras were sold here in Melbourne, and all 4 returned back to Germany for repairs. Perhaps somebody feeding me..... BS. If the Leica R was a money pit for Leitz, why didn't they discontinue the Reflex series after they produced the last Leicaflex SL2 altogether, then we wouldn't be discussing this topic. But then again, I am glad they didn't, after all, the Leica R system has given me a lot of wonderful images over the Last 40 years and still doing so, thanks to FUJIFILM Provia. Ken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted April 22, 2014 Share #20 Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) I cannot understand why so many people on this forum come up with lame excuses and defending Solms That they made the right decisions on discontinuning the R system. Six months or so before Leica discontinued the R line I started building an R system. I had a few natures trips on the horizon, and I had already been an M user for more then a decade, so thought it natural to stick with Leica for an SLR. Anyway, at this time, before the announcement, I heard from several dealers that the R stuff just wasn't selling, and hadn't been for awhile. What I further found surprising was that when the R line was discontinued, there wasn't a bunch of new R stuff being sold at discount. A few places had the remaining surplus, I believe a German dealer, but it really wasn't much at all. Most of the dealer shelves were empty of R stuff, a further indication that they just weren't stocking the R line. A postscript for the story is that I liked my R system so much (mostly based on the Leicaflex SL), I eventually got rid of my M equipment. My only regret is that I didn't pick up a Leicaflex earlier. Edited April 22, 2014 by SteveYork Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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