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Old 05/08/11, 01:24   #1 (permalink)
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Default SD card discussion thread

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Please use this thread for discussing SD card matters that do not fit into the reporting threads.THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR REPORTS
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Old 05/08/11, 09:32   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Leica M9 SD Card Success Reports

M9 firmware version 1.162

Memory card used Panasonic PASD8GBU1 8GB SDHC-UHS-I has
..the following label: Panasonic, READ 90 • WRITE 25 MB/s, Class 10, I U1, SDHC, 8GB
I received the memory card on July 28, 2011 from B&H.
Many thanks to Jamie Roberts for recommending this card.

Building on the tests reported here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...9-post125.html, I have done the following:

• Memory card in M9, M9 via USB attached to MacBook Pro.
• On Mac use Disk Utility to erase memory card with writing zeros.
• We get: Volume Erase failed with the error: MediaKit reports bad partition or no map found.

• Subsequently, I have formatted the card several times in a card reader, and then in the M9 with Yes and Overwrite.

• Then I have taken pictures with the M9 until the card was completely full. I tried every trick described in the forum to make the M9 fail, namely switching off and on, scrolling within and across images while the red LED was blinking. The only thing I didn't do is remove the battery.

Temporarily all buttons were dead. When the red LED kept blinking and blinking, I switched the M9 off and waited until the blinking stopped. I used S and C, bracketing, various display options, M9 switching off after 10 minutes, or only manually, DNG compressed and uncompressed, with JPG fine or without, ISO160 or Auto. I changed the settings a lot while the red LED kept blinking. Typically, when my M9 is switched off and I press the shutter button, the red LED blinks. This time I observed a few times that this didn't happen after the red LED stopped blinking indicating images had been saved to memory card. In the end there was room for 6 uncompressed images when I told the M9 to shoot a sequence of 7 images. The M9 showed space for 0 images left and refused to take images. So, I switched to compressed DNG and filled up the remaining space. No problem.

IIRC, I also noticed that sometimes, after freezing up, all but one of the buttons were functioning again. However, when I pressed the Play button, the M9 froze up until I switched off, waited a few seconds, and then switched on again. Sometimes, I had to do this more than once.

There are 390 images on the card, 212 DNG (some compressed, most uncompressed) and 178 JPEG files. I transferred all to the Mac. The images appear to be undamaged.

The battery level in the M9 once just slightly fell below 50% by 1 or 2%. Even when the battery level is somewhat above 50% the M9 won't permit a format with Overwrite, but, of course one can do a format with Yes.

So far, so good.

Next I tried to find a workaround that would permit Disk Utility to erase, with writing zeros, the memory card in the via USB cable attached M9. The following procedure has worked every time I tried it, about a half dozen times. Here it is:

• Memory card in M9, M9 via USB attached to MacBook Pro.
• With Disk Utility format MS-DOS (FAT) by using the Erase function, no writing of zeros.
• Open the fie system on the card and trash the Spotlight directory at the highest level.
• To do this one can use TinkerTool to make hidden and system files visible.
• Empty Trash twice. Some Spotlight files are active and remain.
• Now, use Disk Utility, format MS-DOS (FAT) by using the Erase function, with writing of zeros.
• This sequence completed successfully every time I tried it, resulting in mounting of the file system.

In order to take pictures, I disconnect the USB cable from the M9 and format the memory card inside the M9 twice first with Yes, then with Overwrite. Is this necessary? Probably not - but requires additional testing.

I think this looks very promising and requires extensive testing to find out if it is indeed bulletproof or not.
I would also hope that the firmware in the M9 will be cleaned up so as to avoid any even temporary freezing up of buttons.

BTW, I ran Mac OS X Lion in 64-bit mode on a 2 year old 17" MacBook Pro.

K-H.
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Old 05/08/11, 12:26   #3 (permalink)
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Default SD Kartenprobleme

Hallo!

Mit Interesse verfolge ich die diversen Diskussionen (deutsches und internationales Forum) und bewundere auch die Ausführlichkeit der Erfolgs- / Mißerfolgsmeldungen.

Das Hauptkriterium (für geht / geht nicht) wird aber niemals erwähnt. Wohl weil es nicht feststellbar ist (zumindest bei der M9).

Schon zu Zeiten der M8 gab es Verwunderung, warum zB. auf einer 2G SD Karte einmal 187 und bei einer anderen 188 freie Bilder auf einer frisch formatierten Karte angezeigt werden (bitte mich jetzt nicht auf die jeweiligen Absolutwerte festnageln, aber bei identischer Kartenkapazität gab es immer wieder solch eine Differenz).

Die Erklärung ist einfach:
Eine SD Karte kann sowohl als partitionierbares Medium als auch als eine sogenannte Superfloppy formatiert werden.
Da die Partitierungstabelle zusätzlichen Platz einnimmt, haben - bei ungünstiger Gesamtkapazität - um ein bis zwei Bilder weniger Platz auf der SD Karte als auf einer als Superfloppy formatierten.

Wie jetzt eine bestimmte SD Karte formatiert wird, hängt weder davon ab, ob dies in der Kamera noch, ob dies im PC (mittels Kartenleser) erfolgt ist, sondern mehr vom Vorleben der Karte, bzw. wie und ob sie der Hersteller schon (vor)formatiert hat (und ob die Formatierung überhaupt erkannt wird).

Feststellbar ist diese unterschiedliche Formatierungsart nur (am PC) mit einem speziellen Hilfsmittel (aka tool) mit dem man die Sektoren der SD Karte einzeln auslesen und hexadezimal darstellen kann.

Vielleicht kann jemand diesen meinen Beitrag auch (übersetzt) in das interantionale Forum stellen, da ich auch dort bisher keinen Hinweis auf die Formatierungsart gefunden habe.
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Old 05/08/11, 14:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Concerning cards and M9 files processing

My usual workflow is to put the SD card from my M9 in a card reader, copy the DNG files to computer hard disk and then process those hard disk files using Photoshop, following which
they are saved to the hard disk, using the "Save as" command to save them as JPEGS.

However, today I wanted to process just one image, so I used Photoshop directly on the image on the card, following which I saved the processed image to the hard disk.

When I then put the SD card back into the M9, the file number for the image was still there but the image could not be viewed on the screen.

Is this normal?

Last edited by Viv; 05/08/11 at 14:57.
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Old 05/08/11, 15:37   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I notice people are using the success report thread as a soap box in some cases. Which I suspect is not too helpful.

To paraphrase "everything fine if i don't press play or turn off the power while the LED is flashing"

Now, as an engineer that suggests to me if the poster does press play then they have problems? So in terms of a template report back function this misuse is unhelpful.
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k-hawinkler (05/08/11), Robert_M (05/08/11), scrubs (05/08/11)
Old 05/08/11, 16:33   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I think the persons evaluating the reports will be smart enough to filter such posts
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Old 05/08/11, 16:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Concerning cards and M9 files processing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
My usual workflow is to put the SD card from my M9 in a card reader, copy the DNG files to computer hard disk and then process those hard disk files using Photoshop, following which
they are saved to the hard disk, using the "Save as" command to save them as JPEGS.

However, today I wanted to process just one image, so I used Photoshop directly on the image on the card, following which I saved the processed image to the hard disk.

When I then put the SD card back into the M9, the file number for the image was still there but the image could not be viewed on the screen.

Is this normal?
Yes, happens the same on my good cards.
The M9 displays only its own unmodified images in my experience.
You can store such modified images on the card.
You can even have the memory card in your M9, attach it via USB cable to a Mac (I didn't check a PC) open it with Photoshop, look at it, modify it and store it back.
As has been pointed out before, of course, using the USB cable is slower than using a faster card reader directly on a Mac or PC. But it should work.

For as long as a battery lasts, there is really nothing that would stop anyone from turning their USB attached M9 into a slow card reader.

K-H.

Last edited by k-hawinkler; 05/08/11 at 17:06.
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Old 05/08/11, 17:25   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
I think the persons evaluating the reports will be smart enough to filter such posts
Indeed, quite true. Moot point then. Thanks
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Old 05/08/11, 18:09   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Does anybody have an idea what percentage of M9 users use Sandisk cards?

Reason I ask is; While the majority of problems do appear to be with Sandisk
cards, but not all - I wonder whether this is only because they are the most
popular brand used here and if we all used Lexar for example or another brand
we would still see the same fault percentage - Making 'Sandisk' branded faults
a red herring. Perhaps a poll would be useful..
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Old 05/08/11, 18:19   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Not really - we have the thread with well-working cards. If the percentage of Sandisks is the same in both threads, it may be the problem is not brand-related. If it is there a correlation with brand there should be a bias towards Sandisk in the failure thread.
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Old 05/08/11, 19:18   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Ad
If you have nothing to do today try this:

Download the formatting program from the official SD organization, and format the problematic SD-Card. (Windows Program) Using the following settings:

Format type: "Full and Override"
Format Size Adjustment: ON

https://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter_3/

I managed to get a problematic 8GB Sandisk Ultra to work (at least for 100 pictures - I did not try more. I deleted, browsed while in buffer etc. I worker just fine. It seemed a bit slow, but I might be imagining it.) Then I formatted the card again inside the camera and it failed after taking 5 pictures.
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Old 05/08/11, 19:21   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubs View Post
Does anybody have an idea what percentage of M9 users use Sandisk cards?

Reason I ask is; While the majority of problems do appear to be with Sandisk
cards, but not all - I wonder whether this is only because they are the most
popular brand used here and if we all used Lexar for example or another brand
we would still see the same fault percentage - Making 'Sandisk' branded faults
a red herring. Perhaps a poll would be useful..

Hiya scrubs,

Good question. The analysis of the data collected here may show if it is a red herring or not.
For sure, there are cards out there, from most if not all manufacturers, that have problems.
I don't think that really is in question or the issue.

The real question is, if a camera has to deal with such a "bad" card, how does it do it?
Do you get just a few bad images or does it wipe out all of your previously already correctly stored images as well?

I have never experienced such a total wipe out on any other camera.
But I managed to produce just such a total wipe out yesterday on my M9.
The memory card used was a brand-new SanDisk Ultra, 15 MB/s, class 4, SDHC, 16 GB.
And yes, it has a tiny notch at the bottom.
And yes, it is slooooow.

It should take me awhile to write up that experience and post it on the forum.
Pretty funny and hilarious as I was only taking pictures for debugging purposes.

Cheers, K-H.
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Old 05/08/11, 19:29   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelduck View Post
If you have nothing to do today try this:

Download the formatting program from the official SD organization, and format the problematic SD-Card. (Windows Program) Using the following settings:

Format type: "Full and Override"
Format Size Adjustment: ON

https://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter_3/

I managed to get a problematic 8GB Sandisk Ultra to work (at least for 100 pictures - I did not try more. I deleted, browsed while in buffer etc. I worker just fine. It seemed a bit slow, but I might be imagining it.) Then I formatted the card again inside the camera and it failed after taking 5 pictures.

Hello steelduck,

Why am I not surprised.
If you want to have some fun, run the SD program again, then shoot silly pictures until the card is completely full.
I wonder whether your M9 with card will experience a total wipe out as mine did.

More later.

Best, K-H.
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Old 06/08/11, 02:42   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I hope this approximate translation of http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ml#post1792374 above may be helpful:

Quote:
Hello!

I am following the various discussions (German and International Forums) with a great deal of interest, and am impressed by the level of detail in both the success reports and the failure reports.

But the main criterion (for “works / doesn’t work”) is never mentioned. Probably because it can’t be pinned down (at least with the M9).

Even with the M8 there was some astonishment over the fact that, for example, with a freshly formatted 2GB SD card in one case 187 and in another 188 pictures’ worth of free space would be reported. (Please don’t try to pin me down on the exact numbers, but there was repeatedly such a difference with the identical card capacity.)

The explanation is simple: An SD card can be formatted either as a partitionable medium or as a so-called “Superfloppy.” Since the partition table takes up some space, there will be—in cases of unfavorable total capacity—room for one to two fewer pictures than in the case of a card formatted as a Superfloppy.

How a particular SD card is formatted doesn’t depend on whether it was formatted in the camera or by the PC with a cardreader, but rather from the past history of the card, i.e. whether and how the manufacturer (pre-)formatted it (and whether this formatting is recognized).

These different types of formatting can only be determined (on the PC) by means of a special tool with which one can read the sectors of the SD card individually and display them in hexadecimal.

Perhaps someone could post this contribution (translated) in the International Forum, since I haven’t so far seen any mention of the formatting type there.
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Last edited by ho_co; 06/08/11 at 03:22.
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Old 06/08/11, 02:57   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I posted the requested info via the template earlier. As a tech person dealing with firmware/software/hardware issues daily... may I make a suggestion that you investigate the latest firmware upgrade as it relates interaction of data to SD card writing and the power save/shut-down function... power save / shutdown whilst data still being processed and verified to/from the SD card/slot... also check any buffer management fuctions as related to the same interactions. Dr. Nash
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Old 06/08/11, 10:46   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
Hello steelduck,

Why am I not surprised.
If you want to have some fun, run the SD program again, then shoot silly pictures until the card is completely full.
I wonder whether your M9 with card will experience a total wipe out as mine did.

More later.

Best, K-H.
I reformatted it again with the tool and tried to fill the camera. The camera froze on the 68th picture... so much for that theory. (the pictures were not silly though, maybe I should try that next...)
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Old 06/08/11, 12:43   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I wonder if we need a survey of who is using what cards on their M9 to see if the preponderance of SanDisk cards popping up in the card read/write issues report thread is significant. It does at a rough add up, look as if 90% plus of the reported issues are on SanDisk cards but if those are the cards that 90% use, that is only to be expected. If however only 60% of us use SanDisk cards, it starts to look at an easily sortable issue - buy Lexar, Panasonic etc.

Wilson
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Old 06/08/11, 13:05   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

Hi Wilson,

Good point, although that doesn't explain why my SanDisk Extreme sometimes acts up when I fiddle displaying images while the red light blinks.

However, from now on I will exclusively use the Panasonic Gold cards when shooting images for real. I'll see whether that card will live up to expectations. So far it has. Reading its functional description indicates that it has some capability build in that might prevent damage in storing images for certain malfunctions of the camera.

Best, K-H.
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Old 06/08/11, 17:56   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

I just noticed a difference between Snow Leopard and Lion when using Disk Utility to erase a memory card with zeroing out all data.

Mac OS Lion sometimes seems to have trouble at the end of the zeroing out process to mount the file system. Simply formatting again without zeroing out mounts the file system just fine.

Can anybody confirm this observation?
Or is it just my Mac acting up?

Thanks, K-H.
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Old 07/08/11, 03:22   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: SD card discussion thread

After reading some threads posted on RFF about this problem, I bought the Sandisk 8GByte card in question. I decided to try it in my M8, Ricoh CX-1, and Olympus EP-2 before putting it in my M9.

No problem using it in the M8. My HP Pavillion G7 refused to mount the card. The WIN7 Pro Dell machine had no problem reading the files, they are safe. Then I decided to format the card with the computer. That caused problems. Problems formatting the card with Win 7, Win 7 Pro, Win XP, the Ricoh, and the Olympus. The card is at fault.


http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/s...51#post1680751

I certainly hope that Sandisk is looking into the problem with their card. It does not seem to be compatible with Windows.
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