adan Posted September 11, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I will be adding to this as I get a chance to dig into the 4 Gigs of files I shot Wed. and Thursday with the M9. With images. Observations - sensor looks different - less green, and the reflections are rainbow like the recording surface of a CD. Diffraction-grating effect. I'm thinking at first blush this may confirm that microlenses are on top of the IR filter rather than underneath (but I supposed there could be other reasons) It's pretty wild - the sensor FILLS the entire back of the camera chamber like a wall. Finder - 28 lines are way out there - don't kid yourself you can use the space outside the lines for a 24mm - there ain't no space outside the lines. 75 lines are much more accurate than in M8 classic - and bigger - and more complete - corners plus side lines. I think the brochure photographer used just the right lenses to highlight the M9 - 21 f/1.4 to show how wide and fast it can go, 75 f/2 is the longest lens easy to focus without magnifier (and tightest framing - a big deal since all lenses will now frame 1.33x less tight at min. focus than they do on M8), 35 f/1.4 ASPH to show that the "back-focus" complaints pale to insignificance on a big sensor. it is interesting to see which lenses made the manual setting list. The 21/24 f/1.4 and the new Nocti are NOT on the list (becasue they were enver made uncoded) - the WATE is on the list since you still have to specify which focal length you are using. The 135 f/3.4 and f/4 are on the list even though they were never codable. The 21 Super-Angulons are not on the list. The c/v 15 actually works rather well by my standards - it shows corner darkening - but no more than it did on film. The WATE-corrections are a bad fit to the 15 c/v, however - color corruption and uneven vigneeting correction. Better to turn lens detection off (or remove any WATE coding) and make corrections in post. The WATE at 16 definitely has less corner darkening and corrects well. But for the amount I will use a true 15mm lens, the c/v is still darn sharp and usable. NO green lines if bright light falls on the image edge - see below. (21 pre-ASPH), The apparent unevenness in sky (and other flare artifacts) is plain old lens flare from the 21. I shot some pull-80 vs. 160, and some compressed dngs vs. uncompressed - but need a night's sleep after the 8-hour drive back before inspecting them. Quick glance seems to inidicate no blown highlights with pull-80, though. But the darn thing works! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2009 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028732'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Hi adan, Take a look here M9 report from Salt Lake City. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #2 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Here's one dusk ISO 1600 .dng shot with the 21 pre-ASPH - full-frame + 100% crops from a few points around the frame. All noise reduction in ACR set to zero. The jpgs look much better than the M8 jpegs. Better sharpening routines, better yellows. Probably 500% more usable (IMHO). Pretty good noise suppression without painterly smearing or soft edges, either. I'll post some samples tomorrow. (I know, real photographers shoot RAW - but real photojournalists with deadlines and limits to bandwidth transmssion from the field shoot jpegs.) DNGs opened right up in my 4-year-old version of CS2 and Bridge. Cool! 21 f/2.8 with a real 21 FoV - without paying $4000 for the Zeiss ZM 15 - that's half the price of the M9 tight there! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2009 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028740'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted September 11, 2009 The Temple Church (Mormon) 21 pre-ASPH w/detail M9 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028755'>More sharing options...
lxlim Posted September 11, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 11, 2009 Thanks, Andy. You doing my checklist for me The Temple Church shot showed incredible detail. Thanks, again Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted September 11, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 11, 2009 Nice stuff, Andy. Looking forward to reading the rest of your thoughts. BTW, the WATE doesn't need to be set. It will auto-detect and set itself to 18mm, which Stefan says works perfectly well for 16, 18, and 21 as the corrections are not very aggressive. I learned the hard way after I selected 16mm for my WATE, then forgot to change it back to Auto for an hour of shooting. I have a lot of files marked incorrectly as 16mm in the EXIF. Oops. Having all coded lenses, I should have just left well enough alone. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted September 11, 2009 David - yes, you are right - That's how it was explained to me - but it is on the list Here's how the WATE coding affects the c/v 15 - red/purple "stain" all around the edges - and it doesn't even do much to improve the vignetting. Upcoming will be a couple of pretty nice 15 c/v images on the M9 once I turned lens detection OFF. A tiny hint of the purple/red, but much less. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028772'>More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted September 11, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I NO green lines if bright light falls on the image edge - see below. (21 pre-ASPH), The apparent unevenness in sky (and other flare artifacts) is plain old lens flare from the 21. I! I still see a bight streak where the sensor blooms the sun. All my CCD cameras do this but not CMOS. Thanks for posting. T Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted September 11, 2009 OK Here's the CV15 in three shots with lens detection turned off (and vignetting correction applied in Camera Raw - I'm sure LightRoom has newer correction tools) CornerFix users can comment on whether it would help even out color as well as brightness. Still some red stain, but it is often hidden by subject tones. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028785'>More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted September 11, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 11, 2009 The obvious question -- how much softening did you see in the corners of a brick-wall style testured surface shot with the CV15 or your 21? scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted September 11, 2009 One last for tonight - I drove 8 hours today getting home, and my writing is about to start looking like Guy Mancuso's. This my acid test for M lenses on digital ever since the R-D1 - bright specular sun reflections near the corners. At worst there may be some diffuse reflection, unlike the R-D1's pattern of little sharp bouncy-bouncy reflections - and that diffuse glow may just be my old pre-ASPH 21, anyway. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028800'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Funny you should mention brick walls..... 21 pre-ASPH (the one Erwin Puts said was not in the first line of lens designs - and it is a bit soft in the corners naturally) OK full picture and detail of corner Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2009 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028803'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted September 11, 2009 Well, I thought I was going to bed.... Another with the 21 - detail from lower left corner (This is ISO 80-pull, BTW). Dynamic Range looks pretty good, too. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1028822'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted September 11, 2009 One more quick note without pix - the "soft release" is great - feels just like a film M. But you do lose exposure lock in "A" mode, since basically the soft release just moves the firing signal up to the exposure-lock position of the shutter button - try to lock exposure and you'll take a picture. For, me, I'll just leave "soft release" on and then switch to manual or learn how the EV compensation works for tricky exposure situations. Fortunately, we have the option of doing whatever works best for a variety of styles and tastes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 11, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 11, 2009 adan, thankyou for this. I have the 21 preasp and 15cv and they look good to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 11, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 11, 2009 One last for tonight - I drove 8 hours today getting home, and my writing is about to start looking like Guy Mancuso's. This my acid test for M lenses on digital ever since the R-D1 - bright specular sun reflections near the corners. At worst there may be some diffuse reflection, unlike the R-D1's pattern of little sharp bouncy-bouncy reflections - and that diffuse glow may just be my old pre-ASPH 21, anyway. Hey play nice. LOL Not here on this earth to write. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) OK - since I just got off the phone with Stan Tamarkin and have obtained one for myself, I can now reveal the lens that is going to become gold-plated unobtanium on the M9 once people realize how well it matches with the camera. The 75 f/1.4 Summilux. I tried my rep's copy on the M9 and fell in love. Why? • Ease of focus - 75mm is the longest focal length (IMHO) that is quick and easy to focus with the M9's .68x RF, just as 50mm was on the M8. The Mandler Summilux has just enough spherical abberration to give it a little breathing room around the precise focus point @ f/1.4, and a long focus throw for squeezing the RF images together nicely, so it is really about as easy to get "good" focus with as the 75 'cron -again IMHO. • Speed - f/1.4 means shooting at ISO 1250-1600, instead of 2500 with the 75/90 crons - or 2500 instead of non-existent ISO 5000 • FoV (1) - the M9 framelines for the 75 are much, much better than they were on the original M8 - larger, more accurate, and more complete - they not only have the corner "L"s, but additional lines along the sides. • FoV (2) - the 75s are the tightest framing M lens (except for the f/4 90 Macro) - and on the M9, all lenses now frame 1.33x less tight at minimum focus than they did on the M8. Want the tightest possible details @ f/1.4 or f/2? You'll need a 75mm. • Performance - at f/1.4 - f/2.8, the 75 Summilux outperforms any Leica short tele except the newest APO 'crons (which of course don't do f/1.4). Stopped down, it still equals anything else in resolution, and its slightly lower macro-contrast is a plus for digital (dynamic range). Its only "flaw" is that same spherical aberration that makes "pretty sharp" a bit easier to nail - and slight SA is the easiest thing in the world to clean up with digital sharpening. A color sampling, 100% detail and full frame, ISO 160, f/4. Note detail inside store. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2009 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1029642'>More sharing options...
microview Posted September 11, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Marks on the sensor or something on lens? (Sorry: genuinely interested, not trying to be clever!) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 11, 2009 by microview Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1029660'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 11, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 11, 2009 OK - since I just got off the phone with Stan Tamarkin and have obtained one for myself, I can now reveal the lens that is going to become gold-plated unobtanium on the M9 once people realize how well it matches with the camera. The 75 f/1.4 Summilux. I tried my rep's copy on the M9 and fell in love. Why? • Ease of focus - 75mm is the longest focal length (IMHO) that is quick and easy to focus with the M9's .68x RF, just as 50mm was on the M8. The Mandler Summilux has just enough spherical abberration to give it a little breathing room around the precise focus point @ f/1.4, and a long focus throw for squeezing the RF images together nicely, so it is really about as easy to get "good" focus with as the 75 'cron -again IMHO. • Speed - f/1.4 means shooting at ISO 1250-1600, instead of 2500 with the 75/90 crons - or 2500 instead of non-existent ISO 5000 • FoV (1) - the M9 framelines for the 75 are much, much better than they were on the original M8 - larger, more accurate, and more complete - they not only have the corner "L"s, but additional lines along the sides. • FoV (2) - the 75s are the tightest framing M lens (except for the f/4 90 Macro) - and on the M9, all lenses now frame 1.33x less tight at minimum focus than they did on the M8. Want the tightest possible details @ f/1.4 or f/2? You'll need a 75mm. • Performance - at f/1.4 - f/2.8, the 75 Summilux outperforms any Leica short tele except the newest APO 'crons (which of course don't do f/1.4). Stopped down, it still equals anything else in resolution, and its slightly lower macro-contrast is a plus for digital (dynamic range). Its only "flaw" is that same spherical aberration that makes "pretty sharp" a bit easier to nail - and slight SA is the easiest thing in the world to clean up with digital sharpening. A color sampling, 100% detail and full frame, ISO 160, f/4. Note detail inside store. No surprise to me love the 75 lux and the Mandler designs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted September 11, 2009 And a little B&W @ ISO 1600 (Vignetting aded back in Photoshop - I just prefer a little edge burning) • Fov (3) With the M8, I said that "50mm is the new 75" - on the M9, "75mm is the new 50" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96281-m9-report-from-salt-lake-city/?do=findComment&comment=1029667'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted September 11, 2009 Microview - probably sensor dirt - the M9 got a lot of use and a lot of lens changes during the preview. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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