Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 23, 2014 Share #1 Posted September 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BS What do you guys think????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Hi Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS, Take a look here Monochrom and colour filters. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted September 23, 2014 Share #2 Posted September 23, 2014 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/326341-mm-filters-vs-adjusting-contrast-post.html?langid=2 Depends on pic, your intended rendering, and your workflow preferences. Lots of PP actions still possible, including toning, which is another color related issue. Not a simple yes/no. You…an argument? I'm shocked. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 23, 2014 Share #3 Posted September 23, 2014 You…an argument? I'm shocked. Jeff Thought you might be:D Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 23, 2014 Share #4 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BSWhat do you guys think????? Heshe is full of shit. . Edited September 23, 2014 by pico 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 23, 2014 Share #5 Posted September 23, 2014 Heshe is full of shit.. That's what I thought.............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 23, 2014 Share #6 Posted September 23, 2014 You may well see focus shift with orange and red filters, I use yellow and green but nothing stronger. john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 23, 2014 Share #7 Posted September 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am going to go naked when I first start using it and try and learn what the camera/lens combinations can do. After that I may experiment with filters but at first nothing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted September 23, 2014 Share #8 Posted September 23, 2014 I am going to go naked when I first start using it. Too much information! But seriously...just as important as what, if any, filter you choose to use is the fact that an MM really hates it's operator to overexpose anything.....ever. So perhaps you should rethink the above statement. Here's your favourite smilie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 23, 2014 Share #9 Posted September 23, 2014 I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BSWhat do you guys think????? That that person does not know what he/she is talking about. Probably confused with B/W conversions from colour. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 23, 2014 Share #10 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera? But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor. Steve Edited September 23, 2014 by 250swb Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted September 23, 2014 Share #11 Posted September 23, 2014 So you weren't joking when you asked why I had used a yellow filter! My best advice is to get used to using the MM for a short while and then buy yellow/orange and red filters for the lens you like to use for landscapes (46mm filters for a 35 Lux or something like that). Try them out all on the same scene. See what differences they make. The effect of a red filter on a sky is quite dramatic. Having done that experiment you might then try them on a portrait. You'll probably find that you like the yellow, but the orange and red will probably add too much contrast to a face. None of this is necessary, but just an effective way of changing contrast between certain colours. Chris 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 23, 2014 Share #12 Posted September 23, 2014 Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera? But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor. Steve Well you can use mask and blend-if options in Photoshop, but even those won't help if two different colours happen to have exactly the same tonal value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 23, 2014 Share #13 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I'm not aware of the specifics presented on the other forum, but clearly there are effects dealing with tonal relationships (as others note) that can only be easily accomplished by the use of colored lens filters (as use of PP color channels don't apply with the MM). But there are obviously myriad effects that one can achieve with PP actions that wouldn't be possible merely by the use of colored filters. For me (in the film world, as I don't own the MM), the use of colored filters depended on what I wanted to accomplish for a given scene, recognizing my darkroom skills (or lack thereof). It was never as simple as always use filters, or never use filters. Admittedly, though, the colored filters got more use with more contemplative work…medium and large format…while 35mm was more typically without. So it really depends what you mean by accomplishing "it". Depends on what "it" is, as Bill Clinton might say. Jeff Edited September 23, 2014 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinicio Posted September 23, 2014 Share #14 Posted September 23, 2014 Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera? But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor. Steve Yellow, green and red Not very strong but a MUST HAVE to work with Monochrome 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted September 24, 2014 Share #15 Posted September 24, 2014 I am going to go naked when I first start using it and try and learn what the camera/lens combinations can do. After that I may experiment with filters but at first nothing That's exactly what I would do. At some point I might use a yellow or orange filter but that's about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted September 24, 2014 Share #16 Posted September 24, 2014 Well you can use mask and blend-if options in Photoshop, but even those won't help if two different colours happen to have exactly the same tonal value. So Jaap, How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR. All the color values can be changed (adjusted) in addition to all the other standard B&W corrections in Photoshop? Thanks, Dan:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted September 24, 2014 Share #17 Posted September 24, 2014 I don't know if one is better than the other, but I routinely stick a medium yellow filter on whatever lens I'm using with the MM. I think its sensor responds very much like panchromatic film, and I always use a K2 filter with film. It's easier to do basic tone correction at the time of shooting than have to screw around with it in Lightroom or whatever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 24, 2014 Share #18 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) So Jaap, How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR. All the color values can be changed (adjusted) in addition to all the other standard B&W corrections in Photoshop? Thanks, Dan:) Because a monochrome sensor avoids all negative effects of the Bayer filter and colour interpolation. The absence of the option to simulate colour filters in Photoshop is indeed the (only) trade off. Edited September 24, 2014 by jaapv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 24, 2014 Share #19 Posted September 24, 2014 How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR. Just by getting rid of the colour the 18mp Monochrom has considerably higher resolution than the M240, and by getting rid of the colour the usable ISO also goes up considerably, far higher than the M240. You also have a smoother transition of tone much less likely to break down with aggressive post processing, so more choices for the photographer. Steve 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted September 24, 2014 Share #20 Posted September 24, 2014 Also, when you use a filter on the MM, you compensate the exposure for the filter factor. When you use digital "filters" in post, you are simply adjusting the individual color channels, which will increase noise. Pushing around a file in post is not the same as adjusting at the time of exposure. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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