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Monochrom and colour filters


Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

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Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

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I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BS

What do you guys think?????

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http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/326341-mm-filters-vs-adjusting-contrast-post.html?langid=2

 

Depends on pic, your intended rendering, and your workflow preferences. Lots of PP actions still possible, including toning, which is another color related issue. Not a simple yes/no.

 

You…an argument? I'm shocked.

 

Jeff

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I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BS

What do you guys think?????

 

Heshe is full of shit.

.

Edited by pico
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I am going to go naked when I first start using it.

 

Too much information!

But seriously...just as important as what, if any, filter you choose to use is the fact that an MM really hates it's operator to overexpose anything.....ever. So perhaps you should rethink the above statement. Here's your favourite smilie :D

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I am in the middle of an argument with someone on another forum (for a change) and he/she is saying to NOT use colored filters with a Monochrom but to do it post process I am calling BS

What do you guys think?????

 

That that person does not know what he/she is talking about.

Probably confused with B/W conversions from colour.

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Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera?

 

But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html

 

and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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So you weren't joking when you asked why I had used a yellow filter! My best advice is to get used to using the MM for a short while and then buy yellow/orange and red filters for the lens you like to use for landscapes (46mm filters for a 35 Lux or something like that). Try them out all on the same scene. See what differences they make. The effect of a red filter on a sky is quite dramatic. Having done that experiment you might then try them on a portrait. You'll probably find that you like the yellow, but the orange and red will probably add too much contrast to a face. None of this is necessary, but just an effective way of changing contrast between certain colours.

 

Chris

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Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera?

 

But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html

 

and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor.

 

Steve

Well you can use mask and blend-if options in Photoshop, but even those won't help if two different colours happen to have exactly the same tonal value.

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I'm not aware of the specifics presented on the other forum, but clearly there are effects dealing with tonal relationships (as others note) that can only be easily accomplished by the use of colored lens filters (as use of PP color channels don't apply with the MM). But there are obviously myriad effects that one can achieve with PP actions that wouldn't be possible merely by the use of colored filters.

 

For me (in the film world, as I don't own the MM), the use of colored filters depended on what I wanted to accomplish for a given scene, recognizing my darkroom skills (or lack thereof). It was never as simple as always use filters, or never use filters. Admittedly, though, the colored filters got more use with more contemplative work…medium and large format…while 35mm was more typically without.

 

So it really depends what you mean by accomplishing "it". Depends on what "it" is, as Bill Clinton might say.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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Colour filters on the Monochrom work exactly like they do with B&W film, so you should have no fear at all of using them. Perhaps the person you are arguing with doesn't realise the Monochrom is a B&W only camera?

 

But to prove the point there is another current thread on LUF about making tri-colour images from the Monochrom, or B&W film, here

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/347444-b-n-digital-colour.html

 

and you can't do that if the B&W only sensor doesn't respond to pre-filtered light. It makes no sense however to apply colour filters to adjust tonality in the traditional way in SEP or Photoshop because there is no colour information, any tonality adjustment needs to be made to the light entering the lens before it hits the sensor.

 

Steve

 

 

 

Yellow, green and red

Not very strong but a MUST HAVE to work with Monochrome

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I am going to go naked when I first start using it and try and learn what the camera/lens combinations can do. After that I may experiment with filters but at first nothing

 

That's exactly what I would do. At some point I might use a yellow or orange filter but that's about it. :)

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Well you can use mask and blend-if options in Photoshop, but even those won't help if two different colours happen to have exactly the same tonal value.

 

So Jaap, How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR. All the color values can be changed (adjusted) in addition to all the other standard B&W corrections in Photoshop? Thanks, Dan:)

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I don't know if one is better than the other, but I routinely stick a medium yellow filter on whatever lens I'm using with the MM. I think its sensor responds very much like panchromatic film, and I always use a K2 filter with film. It's easier to do basic tone correction at the time of shooting than have to screw around with it in Lightroom or whatever.

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So Jaap, How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR. All the color values can be changed (adjusted) in addition to all the other standard B&W corrections in Photoshop? Thanks, Dan:)

 

Because a monochrome sensor avoids all negative effects of the Bayer filter and colour interpolation.

The absence of the option to simulate colour filters in Photoshop is indeed the (only) trade off.

Edited by jaapv
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How is it that an MM is so much better for B&W when, for example, using the M240 and converting color to BW in Photoshop, ACR.

 

Just by getting rid of the colour the 18mp Monochrom has considerably higher resolution than the M240, and by getting rid of the colour the usable ISO also goes up considerably, far higher than the M240. You also have a smoother transition of tone much less likely to break down with aggressive post processing, so more choices for the photographer.

 

Steve

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Also, when you use a filter on the MM, you compensate the exposure for the filter factor. When you use digital "filters" in post, you are simply adjusting the individual color channels, which will increase noise. Pushing around a file in post is not the same as adjusting at the time of exposure.

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