Diglloyd:"...Leica typ M Usablity..."

[ericborgstrom]

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Diglloyd in his free blog summarizes problems he found with the Leica M after rather extensive use. Most of the problem areas he describes I already encountered although my M arrived just last week. But pictures can be fantastic and that is what counts. Leica is a small company and has not finalized the handling M 240 yet - i hope.

 

diglloyd blog - Open Letter to Leica: Leica M Typ 240 Usability and Quality

[dwbell]

Ouch! The defenders need to saddle up...

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[viramati]

I would have to agree with nearly all his points

[digitalfx]

Its the same points he already discussed, just summarized.

It feels like he is jilted lover.

love his comment like this:

"Maybe that’s why most Leica M lenses are in stock: the value proposition has gone beyond any reasonable bounds."

[HeinzX]

Cannot complain about my M. Like it and for me the handling is much better than that of my M 9 (has to do with my eyes too) - which I have sold. It is not perfect - but what is perfect anyway ? Some things are easier to realize with my Canon 5 D III - but I do not want always to carry much more weight with me. Anyway - nobody is forced to buy the M 240 - and everybody can sell it a good price if not satisfied with it.

[sisoje]

I wish I can complain about New M as well:D...

 

But wait! I don't even have it yet...

 

And who knows how long it will be before I get it? Maybe by that time some of the listed issues will be "fixed"?

 

Time will tell. I am staying on the "list"...

[digitalfx]

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His comments are based on the fact that he received a defective camera, so most experiences with the M will be different. Mine certainly is.

 

Regarding his laundry list, some are valid some are personal preference...some are just bizarre statements:

 

3. When can we expect the video button to be programmable, for example, to initiate Live View zoom or the Horizon feature (deeply buried in the menus)? I don’t use video, so this is a non-button that gets in the way (by making a video when I don’t want one), and is otherwise 100% useless.

 

"gets in the way" really? I hardly notice its there.

 

6. How could anyone at Leica think that six tiny identical-to-the-touch and invisible-in-dim-light buttons at left are anything but lazy thinking? They cannot be distinguished by feel; one has to learn braille skills to operate the camera in dim light. Try working them with gloves on in cold weather. Go buy a Nikon D800 and see that key buttons like play and delete are larger and well separated, and that the others are larger and easier to operate. These buttons (and the badly placed video and Live View button) are are design incompetence.

 

design incompetence?

 

7. This is a premium camera. The VF-2 is hugely overpriced and under-pixelled, and offers washed-out visibility in many lighting conditions. When will Leica support the higher resolution EVF displays (e.g. Olympus VF-4) with the M240? Please don’t say “not possible” or “$1000 extra if you want one”.

 

ummm...the VF-4 just started shipping a week ago...come on now.

 

8. The EVF has too low a resolution, and cannot discriminate ideal focus with ƒ/2.8 - ƒ/4 apertures. Too often, the result is focus-biased forward, thus throwing off the entire zone of sharp focus. Support the VF-4 grade EVF and improve the focus peaking algorithm. This is Leica, not an $800 consumer camera. Make it deliver Leica quality in all respects—at present the EVF quality is inferior to several consumer-grade cameras.

 

Is the EVF perfect? No, but I certainly don't have any issues focusing with it.

 

9. The display modes are highly modal and inconvenient at best: there is no eye detect to activate the EVF (as with Sony NEX and Olympus and Fuji consumer cameras), and no option to display images on rear LCD or EVF or both. I am constantly “chimping” to make the EVF or rear LCD show something when I want it. There is no worse usability design in existence today (for cameras with LCD and EVF)—it requires constant endless button pressing. It is a very poor design. How could this non-thinking design leave the factory ?

 

Again, the design is less than perfect, but very typical Leica. Hardly a disaster as he implies. I would love to see improvements, but will not expect them. I am more than happy though with the current functionality.

 

10. Why is magnified Live View restricted to the center only? And when will this be fixed to allow moving the magnified portion around? So that every image needing critical focus doesn’t have to first be focused, the recomposed, which itself moves focus! This rudimentary science-fair-project implementation is unacceptable.

 

This has been discussed at length. I believe its a hardware limitation. Obviously this would be a welcome addition, but the system functions perfectly as-is.

 

11. Why does magnified Live View pop back to full screen when I press the shutter? It makes it very difficult to take any kind of close up, where I might be moving slightly. Make this an option to not pop-out.

 

This is by design. I prefer this approach...not sure why he doesn't like this.

[Rick]

I can agree with some of his points, some is just personal preference but, he is a little late to the party, all of these things have been mentioned here for several months.

 

I guess I don't understand anymore why people are willing to just sit back and complain when they get a bad camera that locks up. Diglloyd, take your camera back, it doesn't work right... why don't you get that?

 

In the meantime, mine works fine and those waiting should expect the same. I don't think I've had more fun with a camera. I feel extremely fortunate. :D:D

 

Rick

Edited July 14, 2013 by RickLeica

[HV25]

I've been using the new M for two weeks now and honestly can't find much wrong with it.

 

Of course it's not a faultless camera and I'm sure that I will be able to put together a list of things I wish would be different in a few months myself after having used the M over a longer period of time.

 

That said Leica is a rather small company and the fact that their products rightly or wrongly command a premium price doesn't mean their new products are absolutely perfect.

 

I bought one of the first D800e cameras Nikon produced. And believe me they didn't get it right from the start either. Is that more acceptable just because that camera is half the price compared to the M 240 ?

[jaapv]

<shrug> Typical Digiloyd rant. No need to get defensive. All I can say is that my M works as expected right out of the box, actually above expectation.

[timd.]

I can agree with some of his points, some is just personal preference but, he is a little late to the party, all of these things have been mentioned here for several months.

 

if all of these things have been mentioned here for several months, maybe it's more than just 'a typical digiloyd rant'.

personal taste, of course, in some points. in others it's maybe some well meant input for future firmware or even hardware updates.

[darylgo]

I find Lloyd a valuable resource, he can certainly dissect lenses and bodies down to the finest minutia. If Leica changed/fixed all the issues he found wouldn't we end up with another Nikon or Canon....big buttons, larger bodies, computers masquerading as cameras. I'll put up with the issues, and although I find the M body more complex than the M9 it is pure joy to use.

[Karl G]

Here we ho again

[Rick]

Here we ho again

 

Hi Karl, I don't think we are going into this again. Diglloyd is just trying to squeeze a little more web traffic out of his anti-Leica performance art (Andy Kaufman-esque). Diglloyd is just a guy with a camera. I admit I don't read him. But, from what others have posted about him here, I gather his schtick is to critically trash everything he reviews in a engineering background kind of way. I'm too busy taking pictures to get too interested in this sort of, nothing-measures-up-to-Diglloyd sort of stuff.

 

M240 - Great, but not perfect (nothing is) camera. But, a kick in the ass if, you can get your hands on one.

Edited July 15, 2013 by RickLeica

[gpwhite]

Here we ho again

 

Yes, the Leica choir is warming up again for a full screech, . I think the "delay" in diglloyd's posts had to do with his inability to get an M240 for quite a while. If you read his full reviews of the M240, you will find many compliments and many complaints... I find his comments to be similar to the several professional reviewers who commented on the M240 earlier on because they were in the European Leica circle and received early prototypes and/or production bodies. There were even threads on this forum that the M240 might not be superior (gasp!) to the M9.

 

Bottom line is that as good as a Leica M is, quality control is variable (despite the price) and improvements are desirable for the M360, M560, etc.

 

OK, now let the polls and pounding begin!

[Rick]

OK, now let the polls and pounding begin!

 

Nah, let DigLloyd wallow in his defective camera... it's good for his web traffic. I'm just going to enjoy mine. I hope him well.

[cirke]

after more than 4 months of use I agree with most part of his points

[zlatkob]

If Leica changed/fixed all the issues he found wouldn't we end up with another Nikon or Canon....big buttons, larger bodies, computers masquerading as cameras.

 

I don't have an M240, so I won't address Lloyd's specific complaints. However, my general feeling is that thoughtful criticism eventually leads to better cameras and ultimately more sales. There is always room for improvement, and tough critics provide a valuable service that uncritical reviewers do not. When some people were critical of past digital M cameras, we heard in defense that if Leica changed/fixed all the issues we would end up with another Nikon or Canon. But one reason the M240 is in such great demand is that it addresses/fixes some of those very issues. Thus, yesterday's "ranting" criticisms become tomorrow's selling points.

Edited July 15, 2013 by zlatkob

[darylgo]

I don't have an M240, so I won't address Lloyd's specific complaints. However, my general feeling is that thoughtful criticism eventually leads to better cameras and ultimately more sales. There is always room for improvement, and tough critics provide a valuable service that uncritical reviewers do not. When some people were critical of past digital M cameras, we heard in defense that if Leica changed/fixed all the issues we would end up with another Nikon or Canon. But one reason the M240 is in such great demand is that it addresses/fixes some of those very issues. Thus, yesterday's "ranting" criticisms become tomorrow's selling points.

 

Your are right, if every review was glowing we would have Popular Photography. Being critical has it's place, what I sensed from his writing was more frustration. The frustration of using a camera that didn't work to his needs, that of a modern dslr with all the menus allowing endless configuration to the point of drowning in them. In addition I had personal emails with him while he was shooting in the White Moutntain area pointing out specific methods to accomplish settings he was unaware. From his recent material I am not sure he is currently aware. Personally I am finding the M has lost the simplicity of the M9 while gaining technically desirable features such as live view, it's just a matter of personal taste as to how much technology vs. simplicity.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

I don't find my M240 less simple that my M8.2. As long a i don't use LV it behaves more or less like the former with less noise and more resolution. My only gripe is its slower awaking time but this is another story.