Sensor Cracks

[Stealth3kpl]

Did they ever get to the bottom of why some sensors cracked on the M9. Did they make any adjustment to the design to stop it happening and is it likely that no such issue will arise with the M?
Pete

[marknorton]

The new sensor is entirely different, designed by a different company and also made by a third party. It may have problems all its own but just because Kodak (as was) had the problem, there's no reason to believe the new sensor will have the same.

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by Stealth3kpl

Did they make any adjustment to the design to stop it happening

I don't think so (at least "they" being Leica) – my slightly less than one year old M9P cracked recently. As Mark states, this is not relevant to the new M which uses an entirely new sensor.

[JCharlton]

Wait... I thought the glass sensor cover is what has been cracking on the M's, not the actual sensor itself.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by JCharlton

Wait... I thought the glass sensor cover is what has been cracking on the M's, not the actual sensor itself.

When talking about ‘the sensor’ one usually refers to the whole unit, i.e. not just the silicon chip, but also the Bayer filters, microlenses, the cover glass etc..

Whether (as we may presume) Truesense Imaging, Inc. in the US has learned to avoid the cracking has no bearing on the new sensor that was designed by CMOSIS in Belgium and is manufactured by STMicroelectronics in France.

[JCharlton]

Thank you Michael. I was unaware of the many layers above the silicon chip.

[earleygallery]

I recall some mention being made of the bonding process for sensor to glass. Clearly there is some undue stress being applied to the glass causing it to crack in some cases.

I'm not sure that it's been fixed as such but Leica do acknowledge the problem.

[jdlaing]

Does anybody with a cracked sensor use a collapsible Elmar lens?

[Richard.no]

Originally Posted by marknorton

The new sensor is entirely different, designed by a different company and also made by a third party. It may have problems all its own but just because Kodak (as was) had the problem, there's no reason to believe the new sensor will have the same.

What about the Leica Monochrom, it does use a sensor similar to the one in the M9 doesn't it? If speculating, could sensor cracking issues arise with the Monochrom as well?

I'm growing a bit interested in the Monochrom, but would hate to end up in a situation where the sensor cracks +2 years from now, and no replacement sensor being available.

Best,
Richard

[marknorton]

Yes, it's a similar sensor which goes through the same manufacturing processes so the same changes which were made to stop the M9 sensor failing will apply to the Monochrom as well.

[Richard.no]

Originally Posted by marknorton

Yes, it's a similar sensor which goes through the same manufacturing processes so the same changes which were made to stop the M9 sensor failing will apply to the Monochrom as well.

Thanks, Mark.

I tried searching both the forum and in general for information on changes that might have been made to the process - but have not found any. Can you point to a source for this, or is this something only a few knows of?

I don't know anything about the construction of these sensors, but I can believe it would be possible to maybe introduce a slightly thicker cover glass on the MM, since it has no bayer filter?

Truesense seems to have removed the M9 sensor (and the MM) from their product line, so I think it would be a fair guess that any cracking issue with the MM CCD, would become disasterous, unless Leica chose to stack up with loads sensors "just in case" (probably not). So either you're right and they have eliminated the problem, or they chose to take the risk and hope for the best.

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by Richard.no

unless Leica chose to stack up with loads sensors "just in case" (probably not).

Leica certainly haven't chosen to stack up with loads of sensors because they have currently run out of the M9 ones. I think we can safely assume that Truesense are still making the sensors or Leica would have a very serious problem indeed.

[nicks500]

Originally Posted by wattsy

I think we can safely assume that Truesense are still making the sensors or Leica would have a very serious problem indeed.

I wouldnt assume anything sorry but I am a bit of a pessimist but I am interested if any MM sensors have cracked?

[wattsy]

I think it's a reasonable assumption or they will have a bit of a problem explaining to me why they can't replace the cracked sensor in my 1 year old camera.

[250swb]

Originally Posted by jdlaing

Does anybody with a cracked sensor use a collapsible Elmar lens?

Yes I use collapsible lenses. There is no correlation at all between the two.

Steve

[jdlaing]

Originally Posted by 250swb

Yes I use collapsible lenses. There is no correlation at all between the two.

Steve

Im not suggesting the lens bumping anything.
I'm thinking of something else happening.

[Bill Wendlandt]

I may be wrong but I do not recall any reported cracked sensors on the MM. There was an issue that was deemed sensor related I believe concerning high ISO response.

[nicks500]

Originally Posted by Bill Wendlandt

I may be wrong but I do not recall any reported cracked sensors on the MM. There was an issue that was deemed sensor related I believe concerning high ISO response.

Well thats good because I hope to give my Leica to my cat when I die

[Bill Wendlandt]

Originally Posted by nicks500

Well thats good because I hope to give my Leica to my cat when I die

I would not leave mine to my cat, she would have it on ebay within the hour to buy more food.

[wattsy]

Just an update but Truesense must have found a few sensors at the back of a drawer because Leica have apparently been able to replace my cracked sensor this week.