M9 Expected Life-Cycle

[jmb]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I may have missed previous discussions on this subject, but if not....

 

I am trying to determine the reasonable lifecycle of an M9, before one has to return it to Solms for refurbishment, or replace it. I have made about 25,000 images since receiving in March 2009. I expect that to be my normal rate of usage. I am primarily concerned about the likely wear-out period on the shutter. I realize anything can happen along the way, but assuming normal usage, would anyone have a guess on what one can expect?

 

Thanks.

jmb

[giordano]

If you received it in March 2009 it's pre-production, so all bets are off.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jmb]

I'm the one wearing out. I meant 2010. Tks.

[Nicoleica]

Wow. 50,000 exposures a year. That's a fair amount indeed. At that rate, I would expect that between 2 and 3 years would be a reasonable lifetime before things started to wear out, or require some maintenance.

[cheewai_m6]

i have an old m6 brochure from leica, obviously different shutter, but they said they tested the m6 to 100 000 cycles and there was not a problem. m9 may be built to similar standards? or higher?

[luigi bertolotti]

They were the times of mechanical Leicas... I wouldn't expect such durations for digitals: the shutter, as you correctly write, was a little masterpiece of simplicity and robustness, very easy to maintain, btw; film advance and shutter cocking were manual, with no motors in the middle... And we also must remember that digital, intrinsically, makes people to do MUCH more shutter actuations (after 3 years, and having not kept a precise record, I'd say that is a 3x/4x ratio, for me)

Edited October 18, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[250swb]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have made about 25,000 images since receiving in March 2009.

 

Don't worry, the novelty will wear off

 

But that is a lot in seven and a half months. If you are a pro I'd say the camera will have paid for itself and probably been sidelined with some 'other problems' long before the shutter breaks. If you are a hard use amateur the other problems may not crop up (like dropping it, bits being knocked off etc) so YOU WILL be LUF's crash test dummy on this one. Keep shooting!

 

But FWIW the figures of what shutters are tested to are no real indicator of how long they could last, it may be double. Even my Olympus E3 is tested to 150,000 actuations so hopefully without a fast motor wind and missing 8000th sec. etc the M9 will give the similar Copal shutter an easier life anyway.

 

Steve

[marknorton]

I don't think replacing the shutter is a major expense, certainly not compared to replacing the sensor but it does require extensive dismantling of the camera which then requires realignment of both sensor and rangefinder. Put it another way, the depreciation over the life (or your usage) of the camera will likely exceed any maintenance costs.

 

Chances are we will have a new M camera by Photokina 2012 so you might well move on to that and replacing the shutter will be someone else's problem.

 

I think it's a bit like Apple's battery replacement policy - I expect most iPod languish in the back of a drawer long before their batteries need replacing, themselves replaced by a new shiny model. That doesn't say good things about our throwaway society but that's how it is.

[theno23]

There's a vestigial database here: leica m9 | Camera Shutter Life Database It's only got one entry so far, mine but if more people add it will be able to make predictions in the future.

 

No connection with the site, but I've used it to see realworld estimates for other makes.

 

- Steve

[earleygallery]

What have you done with those 25,000 images?

[RichardM8]

Some 7 months of shooting translates to 120 shots each and every day on average if I'm right. How do you do that?..

[Nicoleica]

Some 7 months of shooting translates to 120 shots each and every day on average if I'm right. How do you do that?..

 

I wondered that too. I thought that I was being extravagant in making 229 photographs during my week long alpine holiday. (And 3 of those were not really keepers too.)

[Guest Overview]

I find this subject interesting but I see that my original thoughts on this subject

were deleted. I don't believe I said anything offensive as my thoughts were that

only time will tell the true tale given the users personal camera and the way in

which it is used and cared for. Also, assembly line variables can be responsible

for one camera to last longer than the next in line with the loose screw... if you

see my point.

I wonder how they estimate the expected duration anyway? Is it an engineering

calculation or are cameras set in a jig and fired until failure?

[likalar]

120+ is a high number, but not that unusual. Here's some estimates from the days of film (this should be fun; I know it's comparing apples to oranges maybe):

Many studios shooting on-figure fashion photos (catalog work) routinely shot 2 rolls of 120 film (24 exposures) for a simple sub-feature photo, and 4-8 rolls (75+ exposures) for a larger, feature shot. 10 shots a day could be 500+ exposures x 5 days= 10,000 per month, or 120,000 exposures per year. Spares were always nearby. Our first Canon digital SLR camera recorded nearly 250,000 exposures (tethered) in the first year and a half. The only problem ever was the overly small tethering port on the body.

I'm assuming the OP is a busy pro, doing editorial, news events, construction projects, etc...or a lucky photography lover that gets to travel way too much?

 

Larry

Edited October 18, 2010 by likalar

[likalar]

I find this subject interesting but I see that my original thoughts on this subject

were deleted.

 

I made a couple posts on other threads that were also deleted. There must have been a glitch late yesterday......

Larry

[jmb]

Thanks all for the comments. As always, most useful.

 

I hadn't considered that a new version of Leica M might come along before I wear out the M9. I use the M9 mostly for non-professional work, so it is rarely exposed to any rough handling. Other than sensor dirt (never experienced it before) all is well after consistent usage. I am conducting what will probably become a four year imagery survey of a medium size German city using mostly the M9 (also D700, a bit of Oly E-30, a Lumix G1, and even a few Canon SD 990 images). I can't seem to leave the M9 at home as I walk through the city everyday. Even when it isn't really the ideal camera, I still take it for the day. I don't know what that is..akin to an unexplainable addiction. It has altered my entire approach to the art of photography. Anyway, I am usually taking 50-100 images a weekday, and about 300-600 on the weekends. So far I have only selected about 300 images as "keepers" for the survey, though I have a second level that I am sorting as purely a documentary library. I have set aside funds to purchase a second M9 body when needed, and generally know where I can find one at any given time, as I do not want to lose this tool. That was why I asked my original question, as I believe I may approach the normal functional life of the M9 in my ordinary use. I don't believe I have every worn out a camera before. The only other use for my M9 is with the 35mm/1.4, and that is for survey work I am doing documenting historical sites. I use several other cameras for those surveys.

 

Appreciated the comments.

 

jmb

[Guest Overview]

Dear jmb, You sound like an honest gentleman to my old ears and I sure do wish you

great success and happiness with this fine tool. I feel bad here on this forum when

people have to question a posters word just because they feel what he or she is saying

is an exaggeration. But, this seems to be the way it is. Hey Buddy, I'm pleased to

know you are prepared for the if and when a crash might take place: that's love!

cheers, Rip Tragle

[jaques]

This is a good question and one that I have wondered about myself... It seems to be the consensus that the shutter will likely fail first?

 

I would have hoped we could expect an absolute minimum of 100,000 actuations before that failed. However I have read of m8 shutters failing after a much lower number of actuations and without warning...

[cheewai_m6]

the m9 shutter is essentially the r8 and r9 shutter. it's not new technology. it 'should' be quite long lasting.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[bybrett]

My M8 went into semi-retirement at 19,000+ and M8.2 11,000+ ... just checked my M9 is now 21,000+ so will be interesting to see how it wears in.