M8 "A Camera for life" or M7 for life?

[sbelyaev]

A Leica camera is not only a tool but also it is a toy. It will become obsolete as soon as you become tired of playing with it.

Pick any of them. Any of them will give you decent picture quality. Should you need a better picture quality get a MF camera.


In my opinion M7 or MP are more durable.

[john_newell]

I think we seriously confuse "can" with "need." I might be able to expose a 25mp sensor at ISO 64000 with no noise, but do I need to? How many pictures will be better? The M8 is already way ahead of what you can get from a scanned 35mm negative. And the fact that you can still buy and use film in an M7 (or in a Standard, for that matter) does not mean that they are going to produce images that are what you expect today - but that's a whole different question.*

If I had a concern about the M8, it would probably be batteries, as others noted. Lithium batteries have a very finite service life. Proprietary batteries may or may not be able to be rebuilt by third parties in the future.

Remember Future Shock. It is a fact of modern life that the rate of change is continuing to accelerate and shorter product life cycles are one reflection of that. Nothing is going to match the product life of Kodachrome today.

* I got my copy of LFI today and was struck at how grainy many of the pictures were. Even allowing for printing issues, those images would clearly not do well in a pixel-peeping contest. Does it matter? Maybe, I don't know. What do we expect? What do you expect? I think our expectations have been changing in the past 10 years. Have you shot a roll of ISO 1600 film lately? It looks horrible next to what you can get out of even relatively cheap Nikanons. I don't know whether it's good or bad...I do think there are lots of questions right now but, at least from where I sit, not so many answers.

[pmun]

Originally Posted by bussta

Am trying to wrestle with my wallet and conscious to by a Leica M, initially I was looking at a M6, then M7 and now M8/8.2.

If it's a quesition of technology then of course the M6 and M7 are way behind and that doesn't stop them from being excellent cameras to this day.

Originally Posted by bussta

My main worry is longevity in the camera, it being digital do you think it is likely to survive 20 years or so?, I know the M6/M7 are built like a tank and will outlast most cameras, but i'm not sure the M8 is "A Camera For Life",

I suppose the biggest issue here is serviceability. I'm sure Leica will keep spares for the M8 for many years to come. For me, I take the next 5 years. I've just paid a little over £3,100 (GBP) for my M8 (with UK rebate). I reckon I could sale it for at least £800 in five years. So the true cost of the body is less than £40 a month. That's a bargain.

[@bumac]

M8 for life??? If you think to die in a couple of years - yes. If not a M6. I have both.

[hoppyman]

Bill, actually I see reasonable responses on what are really several issues. Do you not count yourself as one of the 'usual suspects'?
I agree that the MP could be relied on as a superb mechanical tool with great longevity. Very like the M3. As you perhaps know, Leica still has stock of many parts even for the LTM cameras on hand. By the way a purchase of a second hand body does not directly support Leica of course.
But you cannot ignore the diminishing availability of film not to mention inevitably increasing costs for the same.

Secondly if those transparencies or negatives are to be brought into the digital realm they must be scanned. At home that means a dedicated film scanner. You might have noticed that those are becoming much rarer too. The Nikon 5000 has recently been discontinued. Those scanners being both mechanical and electronic devices have finite lives and service issues as well. The alternative is a flatbed with adaptor. Going that way means greatly increased scanning times and inferior results.

I agree that no-one can guarantee future availability of batteries or circuit board assemblies. I think though that the M8 has already proven to have more longevity than most dSLRs and no-one can doubt Leica's commitment to it as the most important Leica camera right now. Consider just how miniscule MP & M7 camera production is now for the entire world and those substantially go to the Japanese market where presumably many go into a cupboard.

For elegant mechanical design and tradition an MP is wonderful. Nevertheless a buyer has to accept that it may very well still be functional many years from now but you may have the utmost difficulty getting ammunition for it or very limited options to actually turn any film into prints or digital anything.

Finally the M8 results are simply superior, the workflow is superior, the running costs are less and you have a vehicle for almost everyone of the M lenses ever made. Plenty of satisfaction in superb mechanical and optical tools to be had in everyone of those.
Denying digtal's advantages now is just that, denial. Don Quixotic

For the OP, get an M8 now. Get a bunch of superb state of the art M lenses or classics as you wish. If you have any money left over, get a clean M6 or an M3 or M7 as well and enjoy that experience now while accepting it is not forever either. Budget for a film scanner as well in that instance.

Originally Posted by bill

Interesting thread, with the "usual suspect" responses. Leaving aside the bias you will get by posting this in the M8 sub-forum the only sensible answer is a camera that has already proved it's longevity over that period of time, which in turn means a film Leica. Although myself a very happy M7 user if I was buying new today I would buy an MP. Secondhand, I already have the camera that you seek - an M2.

Frankly, I would rather bet on film still being available in 20 years than batteries and electronic components...

Regards,

Bill

[nikau]

I have an M8, recently bought an MP, and own several other Leica and Hasselblad film cameras so I find this thread really interesting. What worries me is whether, in 20 years, good quality film scanners will still be available, and whether I'll even be able to get my Nikon 9000 serviced/repaired. I am very happy with using film, but would not want to go back to a wet darkroom (if chemicals are available!) so a good scanner is a vital link for me.

[falkk]

I got a new M8 out of the first batch, I think. The serial number is quite low. I got it a bit cheaper though. By the time I bought it, M8.2 already was on the market - so actually I bough a digital camera which was already old, by the time I bought it. If it would be a small "prosumer" camera from japan, I would never have bought it new. Maybe you can not even buy a 2 years old camera model as a new one.

I have not regretted it. I love the M8, I use it everyday. And I see it as a long-term thing. 10 years? sure. 20? sure... the question is, what will I be interested in 20 years. But I am confident, that the old M8 will still work fine.

My advice: get a M8, get it now, get it fast! and get a 35mm Summilux 1.4 ASPH... everything else, you regret in one year.

[poynterama]

It is perfectly reasonable to expect a 20 year life for a M8. When my M8 is 20, I will be 91.

My father turned 91 in April and still enjoys his M3 (well, he will once it's been CLA'd!)

[tbarker13]

To buy an M8 and expect it to last you 20 or more years is wildly optimistic, in my opinion.
There is simply no way to predict the lifespan of the electronic parts as well as the future availability of replacements. Will you be able to get a new shutter in 10 years? Who knows? Hell, we don't even know if Leica will be around in 5 years.
Would you buy an Epson RD-1 today and expect it to last for life?

On the other hand, we know film Ms can last a lifetime because they have proven they can.
I have an M8 and an M2. And I'm betting that 30-40 year-old M2 is going to outlive my 2-year-old M8.
I have absolutely nothing against digital. But with M films cameras, you are dealing with the height of that particular form of technology/machinery. You just can't say the same thing about the digital Ms, which are still in relative infancy.

[gfspencer]

Originally Posted by sbelyaev

A Leica camera is not only a tool but also it is a toy. It will become obsolete as soon as you become tired of playing with it.

There's a whole lot of truth in that. I am not a professional. Photography is strictly a hobby. The M8 gives me a digital way to use the lenses that I bought for my M6TTL and for that it should not be obsolete any time soon.