base plate and body failure

[jev]

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Well last week i went to Zion National park Utah, great place and then to Nevada

Have been shooting a lot with tripod. Landscapes, infrared, long exposure night photos.

One of the lenses I took with me was Nocti which is pretty heavy. Sometimes I have done exposures as long as 40 minutes on tripod, plus used tripod for IR all the time.

It's a Manfrotto tripod with ball head, so camera positions where different.

 

When doing one of the shots, suddenly my M8 fell to the ground (well it was grass and tripod was not high at that moment) and base plate stays locked to tripod.

 

Here are some pictures

 

Base plate with part of the body stuck

 

Broken parts

 

Base plate (it's wasn't completely broken off, it was broken just on one side, but then the thing broke off completely)

 

 

Full res pictures here

 

I immediately checked the camera, everything was working fine, focusing, finder alignment was ok. I am glad that it did not fell onto stones or road, it was just a grass.

 

So i went to a grocery store bought bought construction duck tape, taped plate to a damn thing and went on shooting, without tripod obviously

 

 

LESSON LEARNED - do be careful with tripod and M8, especially with heavy lenses. And even if you are careful, you would never know when it might fall off.

 

I still think that this a fairly big design flow on leica's part. The fact that the locking mechanism puts strain on the part that ends has a spacer and then there is another part of the body. If they could make it as one piece or even more thick ? Not really sure.

 

Now sending it to Leica is not an option for me right now, as I am leaving to Argentine in 10 days. Now I need to have some temporary fix

 

So couple of questions

 

- anyone knows what is the best glue for metal to metal?

 

- for baseplate, I can make a mold and repair base plate with industrial plastic or is it better to buy a base plate with grip ?

 

- if I use base plate with grip on M8 is it putting more or less strain on the holding magnesium piece ?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

And again if you are using tripod do check your baseplate from time to time

 

Thanks

 

Jev

[carstenw]

I would avoid glue and similar solutions, since it might complicate the later warranty claim. What about contacting Leica or your dealer right away, and at least get the case registered. If you then need to keep the camera for a while, I guess they could advise you how to proceed, or maybe (you never know), they might provide you with a replacement camera. Failing that, you might just get a new baseplate, and find a way to strap the other end to the camera, in case working with a tripod is absolutely necessary. Perhaps a plastic twist-tie or something rugged like that might work, or duct-tape oriented in a vertical fashion, possibly with some holes cut for various components like the shutter release?

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[AlanG]

Yours seemed to break at both ends - the camera housing at one end and the base plate itself at the opposite end. That is different than the other failures.

 

Are you aware that there was a long thread about this subject?

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/25121-base-plate-failure.html

 

I don't think using a "heavy" lens should be an issue. On the last post (#391) of the thread above, I showed how a lowly old Pentax can withstand lots of torquing force without a problem. Why shouldn't a Leica be as strong?

[jaapv]

Well, reading your story, it seems that this one is going to be a neck-to-neck race between the insurance company and Leica's guarantee department- with my money on the insurance company. This is clearly a case of breakage due to outside impact. Who is to tell how heavily the camera fell? Not too lightly, as it tore off the brass at the other side as well. On the other hand, it is clear that the construction is less strong than the original M3. The baseplate on the M3 locked under an extension of the mild steel (or brass?) of the interior bottom plate instead of the edge of the brittle lightmetal bodycasting on the M8. The lug on the other side of the M3 is a design that is not only more robust than the M8, but also less prone to malposition when closing. That, I think is a major contributing cause to this failure. Forcefully closing the camera when incorrectly engaged will cause microfractures which will become apparent when any force by a tripod is applied.

This is a part that should be redesigned on an M9.

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[jev]

Alan

 

Thank you for information, I just found the thread you mention, it's huge, do you know how it ended ?

 

As far as second end of the base plate, it's hard to explain, it did not broke off initially, it was slightly bended initially, but as i mentioned i used the duck tape to put a plate in place and the other end just fell off because of bending, later on.

 

Jev

 

 

 

 

 

Yours seemed to break at both ends - the camera housing at one end and the base plate itself at the opposite end. That is different than the other failures.

 

Are you aware that there was a long thread about this subject?

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/25121-base-plate-failure.html

 

I don't think using a "heavy" lens should be an issue. On the last post (#391) of the thread above, I showed how a lowly old Pentax can withstand lots of torquing force without a problem. Why shouldn't a Leica be as strong?

[jaapv]

Afaik it ended with Leica repairing the cameras under guarantee. As I said - it will be a toss-up between Leica and the insurance.

[jev]

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Jaap

 

I can see by your picture that M3 is much more protected, has 2 solid places holding it.

It's not about outside impact either, camera is working fine.

 

I also have Canon 5D and I am sure that if it would have an outside impacts on tripod and it would take outside impact together with tripod.

 

So if my M8 would fall to asphalt together with tripod and dented, broke etc, I get it, i need to pay to fix it. When my camera separates into pieces, it's a problem.

And overall it's not a question of money, I need something that i can use on the tripod if I want.

[zlatkob]

Placing the tripod mount on a removable plate was a misjudgment. It seems that nostalgia won over good engineering. There is a good reason why tools and other objects are normally not supported by their doors and latches. This is an archaic aspect of the M design that no longer has a place in the digital era. Before someone answers that this is the way it's been done for 50 years, note that Jaap's photo illustrates that it was done differently and better. If the film era provided a functional justification for a removable base plate (rigid film plane, etc.), that ended with digital.

[ho_co]

... I just found the thread you mention, it's huge, do you know how it ended ? ...

Jev--

So far, all the cameras that have shown this problem have been repaired under warranty. (At least one had originally been charged, but that was reversed after Leica became aware of the problem.)

 

It hadn't been an issue for Leica. At the time of that thread, there had been only four cameras as I recall, and they were all under the radar, having crossed different repairmen's desks unnoticed.

 

When Leica was made aware of the problem by that thread, they posted there that all future cases of this failure will be examined individually. That is, there's recognition of the issue but no blanket policy.

 

Sorry for the problem. Good luck. I hope you can at least get a replacement baseplate in the interim.

 

Do enjoy Argentina in the summer!

[papimuzo]

Sorry for that event Jev.

My feeling is that here :

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/61580-m8-base-plate-new-design-consideration-5.html

is the solution! You will have to open and carefully close the base-plate ONCE, limiting the risk to baddly engage the lock.

We should push Tim to advance this project.

Hope that the M9 will take note of such a proposal.

[Double Negative]

Luigi of leicatime.com has a new baseplate design (for quick SD card changes) but without the battery opening of the other design. Currently available for ~$210 USD.

 

Of course, it won't help if part of the body is missing...

[Ted99]

Hello!

I have now receaved my camera from: Kamerateknik | V

the base plate in now bolted to the camera housing. It seams totally stable and so fare as i can see it will work nicely.

I shall test it the next days, hopefully it will work properly.

The technician who did the job noticed that there is plenty of room to build a proper bottom plate.

I use silver tape to protect the battery and memory card,

 

 

/Ted