Nikon SB 900 and the M8

[Shootist]

Jamie after reading the links provided in this thread and looking at my SB800 I would say the SB900 is not going all the way into the M8 hot shoe. It's going in far enough for the center and back pins on the flash to hit the center and back contact on the M8, the center and back contacts on the M8 are longer, but not for enough for the locking pin and hole to line up.
This could be caused by a tight shoe and thicker plate on the flash or the plate is hitting 45° on the M8 body.
On my SB800 and M8 I can look down inbetween the flash and the body to see the plate hitting the post at the front of the shoe. I suspect you can do the same with the SB900, yes I need a second pair of reading glasses to see this clearly (Just call me six eyes).

Looking at some of the comparison images of the 800-900 it seems there is less clearance between the inside of the plate and the plastic body of the flash on the 900 then on the 800. this couls also casue the 900 to fit tight in most shoes.

[marknorton]

OK, I've now got my SB-900 and it's a remarkable flash, Nikon are certainly on a roll.

Mine fails to lock on the M8 as well, fine on a D3, D2x, D100; does not lock on a Digilux 2 and M8, so clearly Leica's interpretation of the ISO standard is different from Nikon's. An SB-800 locks fine and the difference between the two is that there is more lateral play on the locking pin on an SB-800 (and an SB-80 too) so that these will lock. An SB-26, where there is next to no lateral play, will not lock, just like the SB-900.

My SB-900 is in pieces (what did you expect?) so I'll see if we can get more lateral play on the locking pin...

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by marknorton

OK, I've now got my SB-900 and it's a remarkable flash, Nikon are certainly on a roll.

Mine fails to lock on the M8 as well, fine on a D3, D2x, D100; does not lock on a Digilux 2 and M8, so clearly Leica's interpretation of the ISO standard is different from Nikon's. An SB-800 locks fine and the difference between the two is that there is more lateral play on the locking pin on an SB-800 (and an SB-80 too) so that these will lock. An SB-26, where there is next to no lateral play, will not lock, just like the SB-900.

My SB-900 is in pieces (what did you expect?) so I'll see if we can get more lateral play on the locking pin...

How about filing a slot in the front of the flash shoe, to go around the screw/post in the front of the M8 shoe. So that you can push it in a little farther. You might also need to file a angle on the left side of the flash shoe so it doesn't hit the angle of the top plate of the M8 that is in the shoe area.
Doing either or both of these things will not interfere with how the flash works, IE the pins on the flash.

[marknorton]

Indeed; there are two options; fractionally enlarge the locking pin hole in the M8 hot shoe or, maybe easier, file a small round at the front of the metal flash foot, a fraction of a millimetre deep where it strikes the M8 screw at the front to allow the hot shoe to sit very slightly forward.

Increasing the lateral play of the pin is not really an option.

To release the shoe on the SB-900, remove two screws on each side and disconnect a connector. Removing the 4 screws you can see inside (unhook the spring to get at one of them) allows the plate to be detached; the M8 post will have left a mark where you need to file.

The round I filed is about 1mm wide and less than 0.5mm deep.

Another thing to notice is that as the flash is mounted on the camera, the weight tips it forwards in the shoe; Tilting the camera back helps the pin to engage.

My SB-900 now locks perfectly with all three M8s.

[lxlim]

Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts

David--

..... It won't, for example, let me dial in f1.6 at ISO 800--it considers that silly, I guess, which it is, if you're directly using the flash.
)

Its not silly, Jamie. Its all about extending the photographer's scope. Thanks for doing the groundwork. I might just go for the SB900(Canon user myself)

Alex

[lxlim]

Originally Posted by marknorton

OK, I've now got my SB-900 and it's a remarkable flash, Nikon are certainly on a roll.

Mine fails to lock on the M8 as well, fine on a D3, D2x, D100; does not lock on a Digilux 2 and M8, so clearly Leica's interpretation of the ISO standard is different from Nikon's. An SB-800 locks fine and the difference between the two is that there is more lateral play on the locking pin on an SB-800 (and an SB-80 too) so that these will lock. An SB-26, where there is next to no lateral play, will not lock, just like the SB-900.

My SB-900 is in pieces (what did you expect?) so I'll see if we can get more lateral play on the locking pin...

Ah, Mark. Bear in mind this is a Leica forum, so if disassembled images of SB900(s) may not meet the approval of the moderators. But I do look forward to the dissections.

[marknorton]

No, I'm, not posting pictures of the SB-900 - I only removed the hot shoe foot in the end. I've modified the foot plate as I described and it locks perfectly with the M8 and D3, so it's done.

Great flash, makes the SF-24D look ridiculous in terms of scope and cost.

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by marknorton

No, I'm, not posting pictures of the SB-900 - I only removed the hot shoe foot in the end. I've modified the foot plate as I described and it locks perfectly with the M8 and D3, so it's done.

Great flash, makes the SF-24D look ridiculous in terms of scope and cost.

Actually, from the results I'm seeing, it makes most of them look pretty bad by comparison, though truth to tell I haven't used the newest Metz stuff yet...

FWIW, and one more confusing data point, the flash locks perfectly onto the DMR, too.

Mark--thanks for the instructions on flash foot. I'll take it to someone who knows how to do it

[marknorton]

Jamie, check whether it locks if you tip the camera back after sliding it into the hot shoe. Mine didn't, but as I filed more away step by step, it started to lock when I tipped the camera back but not when tipped forwards. It now locks whatever the orientation.

It's down to the amount of lateral free-play in the locking pin and the chamfer at the end of the pin which allows it to "find" the locking hole. We're talking fractions of a mm here.

[robsteve]

Jamie:

If it is like some other flashes, you may have to make an indent in the Nikon shoe to accept the little screw on the Leica shoe. This way it will slide in further and the locking pin will engage.

This screw in the hot shoe is specific to Leica M, not the R. This is why it fits fine on the DMR. The older accesories for the M system have a little indent to make space for this screw. I don't have my SF-20 handy, but I bet it or the SCA shoes have the indent for this stop screw.

Robert

[rafael_macia]

Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts

Nope--but that's next for sure. Should be fine with the right Nikon peice...

Of course, I'd rather not use a bracket to begin with...

FWIW, attached to a Wein Safe Synch, the whole thing is still pretty iffy...

I haven't advanced to beyond a 283 yet,but here it is on a modified Leica bracket.

I have always not liked the idea of mounting a flash in the cameras hotshoe. Leica made a nice bracket CTOOM, and it can be adapted for an M8

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by rafael_macia

I haven't advanced to beyond a 283 yet,but here it is on a modified Leica bracket.

I have always not liked the idea of mounting a flash in the cameras hotshoe. Leica made a nice bracket CTOOM, and it can be adapted for an M8

The only thing beyond a 283 is a 285 <G>

Cheers,

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by robsteve

I don't have my SF-20 handy, but I bet it or the SCA shoes have the indent for this stop screw.

Interesting that previous shoe accessories have the indent - which is effectively what I've added to my shoe foot. The SF-24D does not have this indent, but does lock on a Nikon D3 (looks ridiculous) because the pin hole on the D3 is over-sized.

Looks like combination of the hole being the minimum size and the presence of that screw makes it a problem on the M8.

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by marknorton

Interesting that previous shoe accessories have the indent - which is effectively what I've added to my shoe foot. The SF-24D does not have this indent, but does lock on a Nikon D3 (looks ridiculous) because the pin hole on the D3 is over-sized.

Looks like combination of the hole being the minimum size and the presence of that screw makes it a problem on the M8.

Yes--that's it entirely. It's amazing to me that the new Nikon off-camera-cord "just works" though, while the SB 900 doesn't.

And for me, no amount of tipping the flash will get it to lock. So it's the file for me

[marknorton]

Jamie

Here's a picture of my hot-shoe foot modification...

Hot Shoe Modification.JPG

[Jamie Roberts]

Mark--

Bless you Thanks!!