Interesting click

[rob_x2004]

Should be a good camera for womens tennis then.

[tmfabian]

Hey, I was sleep deprived and found this article when googling my name for fun. Figured I'd chime in to clear up any confusion.

1) these were recorded with the cheap-o built in mic on my laptop which accounts for the fact that the recording doesn't sound anything like what my camera makes.

2) although the recording itself doesn't accurately represent the actual sound my cameras make, it was meant and does give a "relative" volume of each camera to each other. It was simply to compare the relative loudness of the m7 vs the m8.

3) in my experience, my m7 has the second quietest shutter i've used. first place goes to the new mp, but at lower shutter speeds the m7 wins out due to the lack of gear whirring.

4) both cameras were fired off from the same position (sitting on the track pad of the laptop) at the same shutter speed.

hope that cleared up some confusion.

Thomas M. Fabian II

[chris_tribble]

Ladies and gentlemen - I actually have an M7 and the M8.2 I have done three non-scientific but to me compelling tests.

Test One involves actuating the shutter on both (8.2 in discreet mode) and listening. The sound of the shutter actuation on the 8.2 is, to my ears, quieter than the sound of the M7. The sound of the re-cock on the M8.2 is actually comparable (in terms of potential annoyance to others in a quiet place) to winding on the film in the M7.

Test Two - my partner stands at 3 meters and does the same thing with me playing at "subject". Again - in a completely quiet interior I can hear both clicks, but for me the M8.2 (in discreet) is quieter.

Test Three - same scenario as Two, but with the M8.2 in normal mode. This time the shutter actuation + immediate re-cock is more noticable than the M7 shutter actuation.

The obvious DRF technique for quiet spaces for me now is
a) use the 8.2 in discreet,
b) re-cock with the camera tucked inside your jacket (as I used to do when doing a one-handed wind on with the M7 in concert settings).

The shots here (Tord Gustavsen Trio) were taken in the Purcell Rooms during a live concert with an M7 + 137 apol telyt. They were eventually used on Gustavsen's next CD Tord Gustavsen Trio - follow the link to Press kits / High resolution press photos. For the last two years I've known I couldn't do this kind of work with the M8. Now I know I can - but I'm afraid only with the M8.2.

That's the end of the argument for me.

Best...

[marknorton]

Which is why Leica should do the proper thing and include the delayed wind with the shutter upgrade...

[chris_tribble]

Ah... Mark - I agree, but this Leica so far hasn't done. You're pushing them, I'm pushing them (still no reply from Mssrs Daniel & Kaufmann), but for the moment, the only option for me was to get the 8.2. If the option does come available shortly I'll maybe feel a bit miffed - but the reality is that the cost of the full upgrade isn't that much smaller than whatever I can get on a sale of an M8 + the purchase of the 8.2... and in the meantime I can work the way I want with the tools I want...

[Gareth2]

ummm...........he recorded them with his laptop. Then various people chime in with how it sounds. Although a few people did listent to them with Sennheisers so we're introducing some quality into the scientific test.

Then both sounds are compared with one more variable, ie their own cameras.

And finally we end up with recommendations to Leica on what they should do in the next release of firmware.

I'd respectfully suggest that Leica shouldn't rely on the R&D Department of this forum for recommendations.

[asfeir]

Any physical phenomena perceived by our senses, is subject to very complex physiological laws. As photographers we know well (do we really??) all the issues of color, color temperature, etc...

Sound is no different! It is well known that 3dB is the minimum difference of sound that can be detected by human ears. That might be slightly different for impulse sound like that of a shutter. Sound level perception is usually measured in Phones not dB (there is a complex relation between the 2)

This said, perception will depend on the frequency content, duration of the impulse, etc.

Comparing recorded sounds adds more complexity (frequency response of the mic, the speakers, etc.)

I did listen to M8 and M8.2, the M82. is perceived as much quieter

[guywalder]

Originally Posted by Gareth2

I'd respectfully suggest that Leica shouldn't rely on the R&D Department of this forum for recommendations.

[bill]

This whole daft thread reminds me of a very old joke.

A well-to-do English woman is travelling on a train in India. She cannot help but overhear the conversation between two local men sitting opposite her.

"I tell you, it's "wooom""
"No, it's "wooomb""
"No, it's definitely "wooom""
"You are wrong, it's "wooomb""

After listening to the exchange for a few moments she leaned forward in a patronising manner and said "Excuse me gentlemen, but the word is "womb" and pronounced exactly as it sounds, "womb".

The two men looked confused, but out of politeness, nodded, smiled and ended their debate.

A little later the woman left to find the restaurant car.

One of the Indians turned to the other and said "How on Earth does she know what noise a water buffalo makes when it farts??"

Regards,

Bill

[tgray]

I haven't listened to these sound clips but directional mics (most mics) emphasize low frequency content close up. It's called proximity effect. This can radically change the character of a recording. However, one should still be able to make relative comparisons as long as placement of the mic and the sound source remain the same.

Also, most cheap mics in things like laptops are run through an automatic gain circuit which actually could screw up even relative comparisons.

My M7 has a very quiet shutter

[ArtZ]

I've been playing for about an hour with a M8.1 and a M8.2 at "La Maison du Leica"

- I agree M8.1 shutter is (slightly) louder than M8.2... but, IMHO, the difference is not worth 1000 € (M8.1 is sold at 3.950 € and M8.2 at 4.950 €)

- Discret mode is a nice option but, IMHO, a gadget. I would understand it if the M8.2 shutter was more quiet than what it is actually.

- "Snapshot Mode" is not for me.

- I find bright lines mask in the M8.2 @ 2m better than bright lines mask in M8.1 @ 0.7 m

IMHO, I'm happy to keep my actual shutter 1/8000 with flash sync @1/125. I'm also happy having upgraded the frame lines together with the shappire glass. Vulcanite feels more solid on M8.2 but it also looks somehow "cheap"

[danyves]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

I've been playing for about an hour with a M8.1 and a M8.2 at "La Maison du Leica"

- I agree M8.1 shutter is (slightly) louder than M8.2... but, IMHO, the difference is not worth 1000 € (M8.1 is sold at 3.950 € and M8.2 at 4.950 €)

-

IMHO, I'm happy to keep my actual shutter 1/8000 with flash sync @1/125. I'm also happy having upgraded the frame lines together with the shappire glass. Vulcanite feels more solid on M8.2 but it also looks somehow "cheap"

Shutter upgrading is only 800 Euros, still to much for a marginal difference. Will keep with what I got with the M8.1, whatever initial temptation.

Thanks for the report.

I did the test at Photo Suffren.

[WPalank]

Originally Posted by rob_x2004

Is the M8 that loud you really have to worry?

Nope.