Envy, misunderstood

[the warrior]

The forum which usually can not write to express my Leica M8 and its objectives, I am attacked.

It is always the same, what good has to be attacked by those who can not have it.

It gives me pity that life is so full of such people.

But users of Leica we are already accustomed.

Just read the forum and see what I mean, is full of examples.

greetings

[Amoment]

I agree with you.

Only recently have I joined the Forum with my purchase of an M8, although I had owned an M3 and an M6 for a number of years.

I find it very difficult to understand the negativity, and vitriol in some of the posts.

Before buying the M8 I carried out a lot of research, and based on that research saved for and purchased it. Since then I have enjoyed every minute of owning and using the camera. Some features it hasn't got, and it has others that I don't need, but I knew this before I bought it.

Why all the whingeing?

Stuart

[bill]

Originally Posted by Amoment

Why all the whingeing?

Stuart

I have a theory.

I think that there are fumes released by film that, when inhaled, have a calming effect.

By contrast, every time you use an M8 or any other digital camera all that electronic stuff held in front of your face fries your brain and makes you snappy and irritable.

Regards,

Bill

[kdemas]

Guys - I think all of us, as M8 owners, pretty much feel the same way. Sure, there are issues with the camera but that is also true with every camera rolled out by every manufacturer. You should have seen the issues I had with m y D300 when I got it.

All I can say is enjoy your cameras, take great pictures and enjoy the people on this forum, many of whom are very bright and helpful. There is a lot to learn here, just don't read the negative threads if they are not of interest to you.

Have fun!

Kent

[Eoin]

Warrior, are you talking about this forum or somewhere else?. The reason I ask is I was looking through your posts here in LUF and found no attacks on you

[Amoment]

Originally Posted by Eoin

Warrior, I was looking through your posts here in LUF and found no attacks on you

Unless I misunderstood warrior, I don't think that he was implying that.

Stuart

[Shootist]

The only time I whine about any Leica camera is when I send one in for repair for what I think is a fairly minor problem, but the camera is still functional, and it is sent back with that problem fixed and another created by the factory repair center that renders the camera unusable. I'm about to send in my other M8 for a simple vertical RF adjustment. We will see how it is returned.

Other then the poor service, in time and quality of the repairs, I have never been happier with any other camera.

[Eoin]

Originally Posted by Amoment

Unless I misunderstood warrior, I don't think that he was implying that.

Stuart

Yes, that's the way I read the post first, the problem was elsewhere, but then doubt set in and I just had to ask the question .

[offshore]

I'm not sure how this forum works but the photo.net Leica user forum is open to anyone who wants to sign up, Leica user or not. That forum regularly turns into a free for all due to the fact that so many Leica haters, wanna be's and just plain pissed off people frequent it to spew their vitriol on anyone who posts anything about Leica and in particular the M8. If this forum is the same, and I have to say after reading some of the posts regarding the M8 here, it appears that may be the case and might explain some of it. Opinions are free to anyone who wants to have one but an opinion, especially a negative one, regarding the M8 from someone who doesn't own or never used the camera is just an opinion, in my book, and not to be taken seriously. If I wanted to buy a Corvette I wouldn't start listening to Ford owners.

[rwfreund]

Originally Posted by offshore

I'm not sure how this forum works but the photo.net Leica user forum is open to anyone who wants to sign up, Leica user or not. That forum regularly turns into a free for all due to the fact that so many Leica haters, wanna be's and just plain pissed off people frequent it to spew their vitriol on anyone who posts anything about Leica and in particular the M8. If this forum is the same, and I have to say after reading some of the posts regarding the M8 here, it appears that may be the case and might explain some of it. Opinions are free to anyone who wants to have one but an opinion, especially a negative one, regarding the M8 from someone who doesn't own or never used the camera is just an opinion, in my book, and not to be taken seriously. If I wanted to buy a Corvette I wouldn't start listening to Ford owners.

One reason I don't go there.
-bob

[leitz_not_leica]

Agreed...especially the "it isn't the camera...blah, blah, blah..." people. They should go and get a pinhole to match their pinheads.

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by rwfreund

One reason I don't go there.

Neither do many other people.

It really is a strange place, on the one hand it can be a free for all - though that's diminished now that so few people use it - and on the other hand it's sometimes bizarrely over moderated.

[Amoment]

I wouldn't propose tightening censorship, but I do wonder about the motives behind the negativity, vitriol, and also can I add, elitism.

But then perhaps I am being naive, and it's human nature.

Stuart

[tbarker13]

I don't think it has much to do with envy or anything like that. Oh sure, there could be a small element of that. But I think you would be hard-pressed to find an active and popular forum anywhere on the Internet that doesn't have the same sort of negativity.
It just goes hand in hand with Internet forums. Cloaked by anonymity, too many people enjoy being able to say exactly what's on their mind. They say things and strike a tone here that the would never use if you were sitting in the same room with them.
In my real life, I write about technology and they way it impacts society. I wrote a story a few months ago where I looked at a wide range of message boards. It was the same story everywhere. Car sites. An infertility site. Gaming sites. A fan site for a college football team. Each one had its own experiences with this sort of boorish behavior.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by tbarker13

I don't think it has much to do with envy or anything like that. Oh sure, there could be a small element of that. But I think you would be hard-pressed to find an active and popular forum anywhere on the Internet that doesn't have the same sort of negativity.
It just goes hand in hand with Internet forums. Cloaked by anonymity, too many people enjoy being able to say exactly what's on their mind. They say things and strike a tone here that the would never use if you were sitting in the same room with them.
In my real life, I write about technology and they way it impacts society. I wrote a story a few months ago where I looked at a wide range of message boards. It was the same story everywhere. Car sites. An infertility site. Gaming sites. A fan site for a college football team. Each one had its own experiences with this sort of boorish behavior.

You should do a study on retail.

[fotografr]

Here's my take on the current state of affairs. There are some people who really get energized by either starting or jumping into these forum wars. They seek out places where there is some controversy and jump into the fray just for the thrill of the verbal battle. They are here and in probably every other forum that is structured in a way that encourages open comments back and forth between members. Fortunately, they are in the extreme minority and most of the posts and exchanges here are friendly and informative. The only forum I've been involved with that this never happens in is Shutterfreaks. The reason it doesn't happen there is twofold: 1) It is very carefully and conscientously moderated. 2) It is set up so discourse is between the individual original poster and members. There is no facility for exchanges between members independent of the original poster. This prevents threads from being hijacked and from exchanges occuring between members who were not the originators of the thread. I find that arrangement less interesting than what we have here because I enjoy being able to directly respond to someone in a thread who is not necessarily the one who started the topic.

The easy solution for getting rid of the people who come to this forum for the purpose of arguing and bickering is to completely ignore them. If we all did this routinely, they would go away and stay away. Just don't take the bait. I know that's hard to do and I rarely take my own advice on this. But rest assurred if these antogonists are routinely ignored, they will disappear.

[markgay]

The forum could be linked to the Leica customer area where you list the serial number of the products you have bought. It would then be Leica users only. However, that's not much of an outlook on the world.

Economic analyses of envy have shown that most people value their place in the tribe more than even money.

When offered a choice between having a higher salary themselves or having the salary of their colleague reduced, most chose the latter.

That suggests people are more annoyed that you have an M8 than the fact that they don't. More importantly, they want you to not enjoy your M8. They want it to give you problems.

That explains not just the negative comments but the anger that often accompanies them.

Anonymity can unleash the worst in people. The photographer and essayist Susan Sontag visited the former Yugoslavia ten years ago and conducted hundreds of interviews.

She just wanted to know how people of different backgrounds, who had lived side-by-side for so long, could end up killing or looting each other, once they knew they could do so anonymously or without being punished.

She formed the following uncomfortable rule-of-thumb. When told, "shoot your neighbour or be shot," 10 per cent of people would take the bullet themselves rather than kill an innocent. 10 per cent were sociopaths who would kill or loot at the first opportunity. And 80 per cent would do what they were told or act in whatever way best served their own interests.

Sadly, mankind ain't very nice unless confronted by policemen. Maybe tough moderators will prove the devil-you-know-best.

Mark

[bobtodrick]

Seems to be the nature of the beast (forums).
I used to frequent photo.net, which had its share of people who would get on the bandwagon about how their Canon/Nikon/Pentax could make better photos with the lens cap on than any M series Leica.
Check out coffeegeek.com same thing...people who claim that this or that machine, which they've tried ONCE is no where as good as everyone says.
Now guns!! I'm on a number of shooting forums (where you would think real ignorance would show up). They are far more civilized and respectful than most of the camera/coffee forums I'm on.
Maybe it's because they're all afraid of getting shot LOL

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Now guns!! I'm on a number of shooting forums (where you would think real ignorance would show up). They are far more civilized and respectful than most of the camera/coffee forums I'm on.
Maybe it's because they're all afraid of getting shot LOL

Why do you think we're all so nice to Ed (aka "Shootist")?

[Amoment]

Originally Posted by fotografr

Why do you think we're all so nice to Ed (aka "Shootist")?

Perhaps I'd better keep my head below the parapet then.