Leica upgrade warranty reduction

[padraigm]

So Leica have reduced the upgrade warranty to one year instead of 2!!! WTF If there was only another competitor...

[cbretteville]

This is old news and was announced as part of the reworked upgrade programme after Mr. Lee was sacked. There are more details in previous posts. Search the board to find them.

- Carl

Ps: upgrades are optional, noone is forcing you to get one. A lot of companies would add these two features to the camera and launch it as a completely completely new model and make you pay full price all over again.

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by padraigm

If there was only another competitor...

Name another camera manufacturer that gives a 2-year warranty on their digital bodies to begin with.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by padraigm

So Leica have reduced the upgrade warranty to one year instead of 2!!!

According to the new (several months old) rules, you get one additional year on top of your existing two year warranty. Originally, Leica had planned to give you another two years, starting with the update. Depending on when you have bought your M8, either the new or the original upgrade rules give you a better deal – anyone with an M8 less than one year old fares better with the new rules.

[SJP]

Name another camera manufacturer that gives a 2-year warranty on their digital bodies to begin with.

They all have this one:

"We guarantee that you will have a digital body untill you sell (or dispose of) your camera."

[dcsang]

Originally Posted by fotografr

Name another camera manufacturer that gives a 2-year warranty on their digital bodies to begin with.

Good point that.

I know Canon's are 1 year - and then after that, if things go wrong, you're paying through the nose (unless you're part of CPS, then you're not paying through the nose "as much")

Dave

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by fotografr

Name another camera manufacturer that gives a 2-year warranty on their digital bodies to begin with.

Originally Posted by dcsang

Good point that.

I know Canon's are 1 year - and then after that, if things go wrong, you're paying through the nose (unless you're part of CPS, then you're not paying through the nose "as much")

Dave

I don't know in the States, but in Europe all cameras (even P&S) have 2 year warranty

Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999 on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees

Art.5-1

"The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire within a period of two years from the time of delivery."
.

[adan]

Leica also split the upgrades so that one does not have to pay for both if one only wants the shutter OR the LCD glass - effectively reducing the individual prices for each, including the warranty.

It's the internet age, folks. Check the Web daily or get left out of the picture...

[edit] - Interesting, Art. Wonder if that partly explains why so many cameras still cost more in the EU than in the U.S., even when the so-called dollar is in such bad shape.

[dcsang]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

I don't know in the States, but in Europe all cameras (even P&S) have 2 year warranty

Maybe that's part of the reason why certain thing may be more expensive for Europeans?

Just a guess mind you.

Dave

[mjh]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

I don't know in the States, but in Europe all cameras (even P&S) have 2 year warranty

Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999 on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees

Art.5-1

"The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire within a period of two years from the time of delivery."

That’s not a warranty, I’m afraid. A warranty is granted by the manufacturer and might be just one year or less, even in Europe. However, the seller (that is, the dealer) can be held liable within a two-year period for any problem with bought goods, provided it did exist at the time of purchase. If your camera develops a defect 23 months after its purchase, the liability of the dealer gets you nowhere. Furthermore, after the first six months, the burden of proof that the bought goods were already defective at the time of purchase is transferred to the customer, so this liability is of only limited value for the last 18 of the 24 months.

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by mjh

That’s not a warranty, I’m afraid. A warranty is granted by the manufacturer and might be just one year or less, even in Europe. However, the seller (that is, the dealer) can be held liable within a two-year period for any problem with bought goods, provided it did exist at the time of purchase. If your camera develops a defect 23 months after its purchase, the liability of the dealer gets you nowhere. Furthermore, after the first six months, the burden of proof that the bought goods were already defective at the time of purchase is transferred to the customer, so this liability is of only limited value for the last 18 of the 24 months.

Directive 1999/44/EC, May 1999 from the European Parliament stipulates that by 1st January 2002 all member states must have altered their legislation to comply with new consumer laws. These new laws will ensure that all new consumer goods, including cars, carry at least a two-year warranty and used consumer goods have a minimum of a one-year warranty.

The Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament applies to

· any defective movable consumer product

· any seller, that is to say any person who, under a contract, sells consumer goods in the course of their trade, profession or business

· a producer, meaning the manufacturer of consumer goods, the importation of goods or any other person who purports to be a producer by virtue of their name, brand or other distinctive sign


The directive calls for

· a guarantee of at least 2 years for new goods (or longer if the Member State wishes) where the seller will undertake without extra charge to reimburse the price paid or to replace and/or repair consumer goods if they do not meet the specifications set out in the guarantee statement or relevant advertising.

· a guarantee of at least one year for used goods (except those sold by a private seller)


The goods must

· comply with the description given by the seller and posses the same qualities and characteristics as other similar goods

· be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase.

· are fit for the purpose for which goods of the same type are used

· show the same quality and performance, which are normal in goods of the same type and which consumers can reasonably expect. This will also take into account any public statements made about the specific characteristics of the goods by the producer, seller or in their advertising.


Sorry but in Europe, you cannot buy new goods with less than 2 year warranty. All manufacturers warranty contracts since Januray 1st 2002 offer 2 year warranty. If you can find one with less than two years, I'll buy you lunch or diner at photokina

Sellers and/or dealers can offer you additional warranty (extra cost) over the 2 contractual years offered by the manufacturer.

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

Sorry but in Europe, you cannot buy any item with less than 2 year warranty.

This is definitely not the case in the US. Most P&S cameras sold here come with 90 day warranties. Canon and Nikon pro grade bodies come with 1 year warranties. As far as I know, Leica is the only manufacturer to offer a 2-year warranty here.

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by fotografr

This is definitely not the case in the US. Most P&S cameras sold here come with 90 day warranties. Canon and Nikon pro grade bodies come with 1 year warranties. As far as I know, Leica is the only manufacturer to offer a 2-year warranty here.

I know. No problem.

I thought it was useful to remember European warranty is 2 year minimum for new goods (I think some EU countries offer 3 year).
.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

Sorry but in Europe, you cannot buy new goods with less than 2 year warranty. All manufacturers warranty contracts since Januray 1st 2002 offer 2 year warranty.

This is definitely not true in Germany, where you can claim liability (“Gewährleistung”) against the dealer (not the manufacturer!) during the first two years after purchase, provided the goods puchased where defective at the time of puchase (and you can prove that, except within the first six months after purchase when the defect is assumed to date back to the time of purchase by default). Independently, the manufacturer may or may not grant a (typically one year) warranty (“Garantie”) that usually covers many more issues, not limited to those covered by liability. This regulation is in compliance with the EC directive you quoted.

[Tina Manley]

In the USA, if you buy with American Express, they extend the warranty for an additional year. They've actually paid when manufacturers wouldn't in my experience.

Tina
Tina Manley- powered by SmugMug

[ceflynn]

That's because American Express plays to win in the credit card wars, while many of their competitors cannot even keep their own employees as customers!

American Express:

1. Not a criminal organization.

2. Not affiliated with any criminal organization.

3. Not planning to engage in any criminal activity.

[trs]

Originally Posted by Tina Manley

In the USA, if you buy with American Express, they extend the warranty for an additional year. They've actually paid when manufacturers wouldn't in my experience.

Tina
Tina Manley- powered by SmugMug

Well, there it goes. I did not use my Amex for M8 purchase. So, if I had used Amex, it would've been three years Warrantee if I had used Amex?

-tanka

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by mjh

This is definitely not true in Germany, where you can claim liability (“Gewährleistung”) against the dealer (not the manufacturer!) during the first two years after purchase, provided the goods puchased where defective at the time of puchase (and you can prove that, except within the first six months after purchase when the defect is assumed to date back to the time of purchase by default). Independently, the manufacturer may or may not grant a (typically one year) warranty (“Garantie”) that usually covers many more issues, not limited to those covered by liability. This regulation is in compliance with the EC directive you quoted.

Michel,

in Erwägung nachstehender Gründe:

(9) Der Verkäufer muß dem Verbraucher gegenüber unmittelbar für die Vertragsmäßigkeit der Güter haften. Dieser klassische Grundsatz ist in den Rechtsvorschriften der
Mitgliedstaaten verankert. Der Verkäufer muß allerdings nach Maßgabe des innerstaatlichen Rechts den Hersteller, einen früheren Verkäufer innerhalb derselben
Vertragskette oder eine andere Zwischenperson in Regreß nehmen können, es sei denn, daß er auf dieses Recht verzichtet hat. Diese Richtlinie berührt nicht den Grundsatz der Vertragsfreiheit in den Beziehungen zwischen dem Verkäufer, dem Hersteller, einem früheren Verkäufer oder einer anderen Zwischenperson. Die einzelstaatlichen Rechtsvorschriften bestimmen, gegen wen und wie der Verkäufer Regreß nehmen kann.

In English

(9) Whereas the seller should be directly liable to the consumer for the conformity of the goods with the contract; whereas this is the traditional solution enshrined in the legal orders of the Member States; whereas nevertheless the seller should be free, as provided for by national law, to pursue remedies against the producer, a previous seller in the same chain of contracts or any other intermediary, unless he has renounced that entitlement; whereas this Directive does not affect the principle of freedom of contract between the seller, the producer, a previous seller or any other intermediary; whereas the rules governing against whom and how the seller may pursue such remedies are to be determined by national law;

In other words, that's called surrogation: The dealer will claim liability againt his distributor and the distributor against the manufacturer. The manufacturer is always the first dealer

In fact, all major makes and brands offer Customer Service and Repair Service in the EC Country you live, independently where you bought the goods and whithout contacting the original seller. Goods come with the European Warranty (written also in most European languages) and they're covered by the manufacturer by two years warranty. The manufacturer provides also all the addresses in the EEC to repair the goods (including for the 2 years warranty).

At the end, the european consummer has two year waranty on new goods.
.

[imported_reinierv]

The rule in europe is to guarentee you a certain lifetime of a product. If the product with an expected lifetime of say 4 years, breaks down after 2, you have the right of 50% of the actual repair/replacement cost (unless the by the manufacturer determined guarentee period is ofcourse 2 years)

it is very nice that that this is in the lawbooks in europe...now go to a shop and try getting it. They say: guarentee has ended after a year so bad luck for you. You useally need a lawyer to get it and nobody takes the trouble because it will cost more...

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by imported_reinierv

The rule in europe is to guarentee you a certain lifetime of a product. If the product with an expected lifetime of say 4 years, breaks down after 2, you have the right of 50% of the actual repair/replacement cost (unless the by the manufacturer determined guarentee period is ofcourse 2 years)

it is very nice that that this is in the lawbooks in europe...now go to a shop and try getting it. They say: guarentee has ended after a year so bad luck for you. You useally need a lawyer to get it and nobody takes the trouble because it will cost more...

BS