switching from Canon DSLR to M8

[joanlvh]

I am a Canon shooter, verrrry interested in the Leica M 8. What challenges would I encounter if I became an M8 shooter? thank you, joanlvh

[Michael Tyler]

Having done the same thing just this spring, the first thing I noticed was how much more confident I felt about keeping images in focus. With a 35 or a 50, you can nail focus at f/2 blindfolded. I could never count on my Canons to nail it. Even in well-controlled circumstances with a decent f-stop, there was still that what-if in my head till I reviewed the images.

You will notice more noise. I'm not always comfortable shooting at 1250 (which is in actuality 1600, the iso has greater sensitivity on the M8) because there is less room to adjust exposure. You can get beautiful results if you nail the exposure, but if you have to lift the shadows then you'll notice quite a bit of noise. If you like noise, this isn't a problem. As far as noise goes, it's attractive noise, not like the Canon's rice-krispie with marshmallows noise pattern at 1600 and above. (Nikons, on the other hand, have more attractive noise.)

It's a beautiful camera. With the DSLRs, I felt like a camera operator. The camera was the one making the image, I was a monkey pushing a button. With the M8 (as with all manual cameras), I feel like the author of my images. The M8 is just the medium between my eye and the image. It's hard to describe until you experience it, and maybe some people don't feel as strongly as I do about this.

You'll have to relearn some things. Retrain yourself to manually focus, learn to use the rangefinder patch, and learn how to hold a Leica, which is different than and SLR. It's totally worth it, like getting out of a Toyota Camry and sitting in a Porsche with a manual transmission.

[diogenis]

Is also very fast, very light very small compared to a normal dSLR (not the newest dwarf dslrs). Learning cycle is very small, you won't need to refer for the X time to that manual..
Choose a good lens to start with, because they are expensive and off you go


edit:
And there are limitations of course:
not easy on telephoto
not that easy on macro shots, even if there is a cool lens for that...
not great on sports, or generally fast moving subjects, due to manual focus..

[stunsworth]

Forget about sensor noise for the moment, have you used a rangefinder camera before? Using a rangefinder is a very different experience from using an SLF - especailly an AF SLR.

Try to get to a dealer and have a play with the camera to make sure you feel comfortabe with it.

As for noise you'll find the M8 noisier at high ISOs, but the low ISO shots have a clariy that I didn't get with 5d I own.

[Hans Roggen]

I hope you're not considering trading in all your Canon gear and switch to Leica?
They are two very different systems, both with their weak points and strong points. If you have never used a rangefinder before the switch may be more difficult than you imagine, so i would advise you to try (and then try a little more) before you buy. Don't sell your Canon gear just yet...
I use both systems but find myself using my Canons when i don't know what to expect on an assignment because i feel more comfortable with my SLR's.

Good luck,

[delander]

It is a different but very enjoyable (for me) experience. Check the Leica Wiki tab on this forum which lists a lot of the differences.

Jeff

[Eoin]

Having switched from Canon in Nov '06 to move to the M8, the only comments I can make are,
1. I'm more inclined to bring my camera everywhere.
2. I've had to re-learn the black art of manual focus
3. I can now only use AV or full manual for exposure
4. My bag if I choose to carry it, is a quarter the size and weight
5. My whole visual experience in framing an image has changed and this took the longest
to get accustomed to.
6. I miss the zooms, but in saying that I enjoy the extra thought process and effort required to get the composition I require.
7. Leica glass while very expensive, is outstanding. There are so many different versions of focal lengths throughout leicas history which all have different signatures and price points. This is a joy to explore to find a little gem.
8. The files from the M8 are excellent, but need to be exposed correctly. Hold the highlight detail and recover the shadows in post.
9. High ISO 640 and above can have some noise, but again this is manageable by correct exposure.
10. Noise, can be your friend. IMO it's wrong to compare the M8's noise to the Canon or Nikon offerings. One should compare it to film stock used with film Leicas. Many high ISO films were used for a look or effect and the M8 retains this character of film through out it's ISO range. If you need clean files look to the Summilux Asph lenses with their super contrast and clarity at f:/1.4 aperture and a medium ISO of 640, this coupled with the extra stop or so of hand hold ability the M8 gives over SLR mirror slap should get you there.
11. I've been through the mill with my 1st generation M8, it's been back in solms a few times. Once for the 1st generation upgrade, a couple of times for lens adjustments which required the body and recently for a sensor replacement. Leica have always turned it around very quickly and it has not tarnished my opinion of the camera it's self. Apart from that it's worked flawlessly for nearly 2 years.

I do miss the Canons from time to time, in situations where AF would track the kids playing and moving about I'd manage to get the shot off. But with the M8 it's still very difficult, my eye to hand focus movement is not there yet and I tend to compensate by using smaller apertures. If there is one thing I miss in Canon it's the sublime EF85L I truly miss this lens for portraits. But that's the only thing I miss.

It's (M8 and lenses) a very expensive replacement for a Canon and for 99% of people who see my photos wouldn't be aware of the subtle differences between a Canon or Leica image. But for me it's not about what they see, it's about what I want to convey and the M8 coupled with some of the amazing lenses available are the tools I use to satisfy my photographic ability and passion.

It's a big decision, be sure!.

[ArtZ]

Originally Posted by Hans Roggen

I hope you're not considering trading in all your Canon gear and switch to Leica?
They are two very different systems, both with their weak points and strong points. If you have never used a rangefinder before the switch may be more difficult than you imagine, so i would advise you to try (and then try a little more) before you buy. Don't sell your Canon gear just yet...
I use both systems but find myself using my Canons when i don't know what to expect on an assignment because i feel more comfortable with my SLR's.

Good luck,

Hans,

I know it's out of topic but... great picture at Pinnacle's desert (WA) on your web site. I love that place. BTW, my avatar's (self taken) picture was also taken there

Daag!
.

[diogenis]

Speaking about manual focusing,
for me the transition was a no brainer: by the time I took a look through that viewfinder I knew exactly what I had to do, to get spot on focus.
With time and expertise you will know how to turn that knob, right or left and you will get less and less fluctuations + or - from that sweet spot. I don't fancy calling this black magic, it's more or less a procedure you will easily learn it, with a catch:
you should check and correct your eyesight. Mine is 100% perfect. It seems there are problems to some, but there are alo solutions to these problems.

[stunsworth]

One other thing, if you do any macro or work with long lenses you are going to miss that with the M8. There are ways around that using the Visioflex system, which in effect turns the M8 into a primitive SLR, but they are a kludge IMHO and I doubt that you'd want to bother

[Rolo]

If you use extreme lenses - long tele or macro, the M8 cannot provide you with that capability, but a cheap DSLR will. Buy a £250 DSLR and a £200 lens and keep it for those occasions where it's essential.

If you're an avid zoom user, life is more complicated because the M's are basically single focal length cameras, in spite of having the two multi-focal length lenses. My solution to this has always been to have two bodies on hand. With the M8 that's an expensive solution and if you're a casual shooter I'd settle for one until you know precisely what you need.

As Leicas are generally owned by photographers who care for their kit and often don't use it very much at all, there's always good second hand stock available. Whilst used prices are very high, in comparison to other makes, and some of the more fashionable lenses attract near new prices, when it comes to upgrade your kit you can often recover the full amount paid and sometimes more.

For 30 years, I've found it to be high investment, but extremely low depreciation. That's not the case with new M bodies and the M8 body in particular, but then digital cameras in general suffer significant higher depreciation in addition to the massive on-cost of digital image management.

Rolo

[pcsmythe]

One of your biggest challenges may be the forum, especially when Canon comes out with its next DSLR mutation. (I say this half kiddingly).

Once you get used to the M and its great lenses, you'll have a hard time picking up your DSLR. I don't even know where my Nikon is these days.

[joanlvh]

I really appreciate all the informative responses. thank you joanlvh

[thompsonkirk]

Eoin's list is very thorough & helpful!

My experience is that 'switching' from Canon to Leica has a particular meaning. It's not like switching from one DSLR brand to another, where you'd sell the old system in its entirety.

Many users of this forum (myself included) have hung onto a 5D or another useful DSLR, even though it spends most of its time on a shelf & the M8 is the camera of choice almost all the time.

I strongly suggest keeping one Canon body & one zoom lens because

1. Leica's great strength is hand-held available-light photography. Some situations, however, simply exceed its limits & usefulness. Sports have been mentioned above, & macro. When fill or bounce flash are required, you'll be happier with the DSLR. If you have to change focal lengths often to cover an event, you'll want a zoom (if you don't have 2 Leicas!).

2. Leica's service is nowhere near as fast or reliable as Canon's, & sometimes Leicas have to go to the 'hospital' in Germany. This makes a good backup camera mandatory.

Kirk

[joanlvh]

from the Leica wiki "For proper colour reproduction and best sharpness, lenses must be fitted with uv/ir cut filters. These are not the standard uv filters that are fitted to help protect lenses nor are they filters for ir photography. Having bought your M8 you can order two FOC from Leica. If you borrow an M8 for a trial make sure the lens is fitted with a uv/ir cut filte"

I was wondering if most forum members always use the uv/ir cut filters. thank you joanlvh

[thompsonkirk]

One of the nice things about this forum is that you can search it. Most questions have been asked/answered repeatedly, & here's the latest discussion of your question:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...eccessary.html

Another resource is Sean Reid's "Reid Reviews," which reviews Leica products & lenses & comprises a history of experiences with M8. You have to pay to access the site & it's one of the clumsiest ones I've navigated (Sean, please get a new host!), but it contains a treasure-trove of info. IMO it's unwise to buy an M8 without having spent time exploring this site. It helps with lens choices & introduces you to the M8's quirks (of which are, um, notably plural).

Kirk

[rsh]

Keep the Canon. I have Complete Leica M and R systems and I use both.

[steve_l]

And check out this article on the M8 in Iraq - it is the best description of how the M8's flaws can get in the way - you have to decide if any of these issues are show-stoppers for you.

Leica M8 Field Test, Iraq

And an amazing thing about that article - and about the M8 - is that, with all of those, he just kept going with it for so long...the M8 have an amazing emotional appeal, compared to other cameras. Or maby we all used film Leicas for so long that we just have a mental disconnect and can't believe that the M8 isn't somehow as reliable or that at least some the remaining issues won't be fixed by Leica (e.g. by adding a quick way to change ISO). By the way, at least the white balance issue he describes seems to have been fixed in firmware, albeit at the expense of longer card write times.

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by joanlvh

I was wondering if most forum members always use the uv/ir cut filters. thank you joanlvh

All the time.

[danyves]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

All the time.

Yes, all the time for UV/IR filters