Coding CV lenses and Milich M8 adapters

[jevidon]

I am a new M8 owner having consigned my Contax G2 to the film history shelf. My other digital camera is a Nikon D300 which I use for serious work; using the M8 for the ideal walk around and travel camera.

Based on the Reid Reviews I opted for CV lenses based on performance and price. My prime lens is a CV35mm Ultron which I see no reason to code. I also purchased CV 25mm and 15mm lenses and used John Milich for the milling work.

I removed the mounting flange from my CV 25mm lens and had Milich mill it as well as having him send me one of his 90mm adapter flanges for my CV 15mm lens.

Now for my problem. I used a sharpie to code the 25mm lens (100110) and voila, the M8 recognized it as a 24mm which is close enough. However, no matter what I do to code the Milich flange for the 15mm CV, I can't get the camera to recognize it.

I used the Carstens pattern for both the WATE (Tri-Elmar) lens and then tried the 21mm pattern per Sean Reid's suggestion in the forum. I used a black Sharpie and then after cleaning up the adapter,I used Testors flat model enamel, both black only and then when that didn't work, black and white. Nothing seems to work.

I have conversed with Milich by e-mail and while he is perfectly willing to take the adapter back, I would like to exhaust my coding options before I give up and use Cornerfix, or not. Sean Reid is not all that enamored with Cornerfix according to his comments on his Review Site. He prefers coding.

Both Sean Reid and John Milich say that using black and white nail polish (enamel? or lacquer?) works best.

Is there a particular brand that should be used? It seems strange that it should work better than flat model enamel since nail enamel is glossy and should cause the black to reflect back to the sensor and cause an error making it see white, or does it?

As you can tell, I am frustrated and frankly at a loss. Do any of you have any recommendations that are hopefully are fool proof?

Jim Evidon

[farnz]

Jim,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new M8!

I have used the CV15 with an adaptor coded by John Milich for some time. It took a couple of tries to find the right paint combination and I eventually settled on Humbrol Enamel No. 33 (matt black), which comes in tiny 14 ml tins. To fill the white slots I use white correcting fluid (Tipex) and repaint every few months when the lens feels it needs some TLC.

Pete.

[stephengilbert]

On my Milich adapter I just used flat black paint in the single black slot and didn't paint the white slots at all. Coded as WATE; works fine.

[guidomo]

You need to fill the indents with paint, just drawing on the bottom with a sharpie won't do (at least not consistently). No need to put the white dots though. That is my experience.

[sean_reid]

Hi Jim,

I lay out a procedure in the "Introduction to Rangefinders" article that should do the trick.

Cheers,

Sean

[rafael_macia]

Originally Posted by jevidon

I am a new M8 owner having consigned my Contax G2 to the film history shelf. My other digital camera is a Nikon D300 which I use for serious work; using the M8 for the ideal walk around and travel camera.

Based on the Reid Reviews I opted for CV lenses based on performance and price. My prime lens is a CV35mm Ultron which I see no reason to code. I also purchased CV 25mm and 15mm lenses and used John Milich for the milling work.

I removed the mounting flange from my CV 25mm lens and had Milich mill it as well as having him send me one of his 90mm adapter flanges for my CV 15mm lens.

Now for my problem. I used a sharpie to code the 25mm lens (100110) and voila, the M8 recognized it as a 24mm which is close enough. However, no matter what I do to code the Milich flange for the 15mm CV, I can't get the camera to recognize it.

I used the Carstens pattern for both the WATE (Tri-Elmar) lens and then tried the 21mm pattern per Sean Reid's suggestion in the forum. I used a black Sharpie and then after cleaning up the adapter,I used Testors flat model enamel, both black only and then when that didn't work, black and white. Nothing seems to work.

I have conversed with Milich by e-mail and while he is perfectly willing to take the adapter back, I would like to exhaust my coding options before I give up and use Cornerfix, or not. Sean Reid is not all that enamored with Cornerfix according to his comments on his Review Site. He prefers coding.

Both Sean Reid and John Milich say that using black and white nail polish (enamel? or lacquer?) works best.

Is there a particular brand that should be used? It seems strange that it should work better than flat model enamel since nail enamel is glossy and should cause the black to reflect back to the sensor and cause an error making it see white, or does it?

As you can tell, I am frustrated and frankly at a loss. Do any of you have any recommendations that are hopefully are fool proof?

Jim Evidon

I think Testors model paint (hobby shops sell it), in a matte finish, would be best.

[jevidon]

Rafael,
As I said, i used Testors flat black with no positive results. BTW, I patiently daubed
and waited, daubed and waited, etc., until the slot was full and flush with the surface. So I don't lack patience; just results.

I read Sean Reid's Rangefinder treatise last night and I'm now shopping for black and white nail polish. Not and easy item to find, even here in Southern California (La-la land).

What I don't quite understand is how glossy nail polish will work when flat black didn't. It seems, intuitively, that gloss paint will reflect back to the sensor mimicking the reflective quality of white and giving a false reading. But who am I to question expertise greater than mine, so, I'll give it a try.
Any further comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Jim
.

[lars_bergquist]

I used glossy black and white Humbrol enamel on my Milich adapter and this works beautifully. Can't imagine what you are doing wrong.

The old man from the Age of You Guess What

[biglouis]

Jim

I have coded 2 milich adaptors, one for my 50/1.4 and one for my 28/3.5. Coding is not a definite process, so don't be dismayed if at first it does not work.

I had no success at all just coding the black pits and only succeeded when I coded both black and white pits according to the patterns here.

For black I use an Edding 400 fine tipped permanent marker. For the white pits I use an Edding 780 white paint marker. In fact, I would prefer to use a similar black paint marker but that was out of stock when I made my purchases. I don't know if Edding products are available in the US (I'd imagine so) but you need to shop at a graphics store and not a boutique.

The beauty of the white paint marker is that you can make the paint 'flow' out of the tip and fill up the pits in the adaptor, which I think is the key to success. You have to be a lot more precise (and careful) with ink markers and dab the surface in a way which ensures you only fill the pit and not the area around the pit.

My advice is clean everything up and remove all traces of your current efforts and try again (and double check you are using the right code using the link above.)

LouisB

[ljclark]

Originally Posted by jevidon

Rafael,
As I said, i used Testors flat black with no positive results. BTW, I patiently daubed
and waited, daubed and waited, etc., until the slot was full and flush with the surface. So I don't lack patience; just results.

I read Sean Reid's Rangefinder treatise last night and I'm now shopping for black and white nail polish. Not and easy item to find, even here in Southern California (La-la land).

What I don't quite understand is how glossy nail polish will work when flat black didn't. It seems, intuitively, that gloss paint will reflect back to the sensor mimicking the reflective quality of white and giving a false reading. But who am I to question expertise greater than mine, so, I'll give it a try.
Any further comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Jim
.

As regards the paint...My own experience is that flat finish is more important than the brand of paint. I suspect that almost any decent hobby type enamel will work.

The most important thing with any painting is surface prep. I washed my Milich adapters in alcohol, dried them, and then used a 000 brush to completely fill the bit pit with gloss black paint. While still wet, paint actually formed a convex hump (this ensures wall-to-wall paint coverage). But by the time the paint dried, it reduced in volume and I ended up with a meniscus. I dried the paint under a lamp for several hours. (There is no need to daub and wait and daub. Fill the bit pit once.) I fill my white bit pits too -- if for no other reason than completeness. I also wear a magnifying hood when doing the painting so I can be sure I'm really filling the bit pits.

However, my M8 would not recognize my coding. The culprit? The gloss finish.

I went shopping and purchased a little bottle of acrylic clear flat finish, applied that to the black dot, let it dry, and everything was just fine after that.

If you want to chase around looking for nail polish be my guest. However, IMHO the nail polish brush is way too large for applying the paint.

Also, I took some jewelers files and dressed all my Milich adapters. You want to remove any metal burrs that may be along the edges of the bit pits, check for any bits of metal left over from the threading process, and (at your option) take a little of the sharpness off the some of the edges.

The last thought...Are you using the correct focal length(s) adapter?

[giordano]

I used Revell matt black and matt white model paint (that's what the local ModelZone had). I made sure the bases of the pits were well covered but did not attempt to fill them with paint.

Worked first time.

[jevidon]

For my CV 15mm lens, I am using the adapter sent to me by Milich, which he informed me is a 90mm; the same one which Reid confirms is the correct one for that lens.
Jim

[jevidon]

Thank you for all the suggestions. Putting them all together I find that I must use flat or glossy paint or an ink marker, and I should be sure to completely fill the milled pits or not fill them, and above all, not paint or ink the remaining pits, or in the alternative make certain that they are painted white. Then I should get perfect results the first time,....or not.Did I miss anything?

Now don't get me wrong. I really appreciate the advice I am getting. That's why I put my problem on the forum and I would like to hear of anyone else's experience or advice.

As I said in my original Thread, the coding of my CV 25mm adapter (unscrewed from the lens body and then re-installed) milled by Milich worked the first time with the simple application of an extra fine black Sharpie marker application just pigmenting the bottom of the milled slot with one thin coat. So it looked like a no-brainer.

But trying all methods with the exception of the Reid and Milich recommendation of black and white nail enamel, my M8 doesn't recognize any of the coding methods on my Milich manufactured adapter, which everyone has said works the best. I'll now give it a try with the nail enamel, if I can find black and white in my little corner of the world.

So, when all is said and done, it doesn't appear that there is any right method and the result is a product of patience and blind luck with, perhaps a little magic mixed in.

Did I get it right?

Jim Evidon

[ghammer]

Originally Posted by jevidon

For my CV 15mm lens, I am using the adapter sent to me by Milich, which he informed me is a 90mm; the same one which Reid confirms is the correct one for that lens.
Jim

The decisive question is: Does the adapter bring up the 90mm frame lines. If not, the coding for WATE does not work.

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by jevidon

Thank you for all the suggestions. Putting them all together I find that I must use flat or glossy paint or an ink marker, and I should be sure to completely fill the milled pits or not fill them, and above all, not paint or ink the remaining pits, or in the alternative make certain that they are painted white. Then I should get perfect results the first time,....or not.Did I miss anything?

Now don't get me wrong. I really appreciate the advice I am getting. That's why I put my problem on the forum and I would like to hear of anyone else's experience or advice.

As I said in my original Thread, the coding of my CV 25mm adapter (unscrewed from the lens body and then re-installed) milled by Milich worked the first time with the simple application of an extra fine black Sharpie marker application just pigmenting the bottom of the milled slot with one thin coat. So it looked like a no-brainer.

But trying all methods with the exception of the Reid and Milich recommendation of black and white nail enamel, my M8 doesn't recognize any of the coding methods on my Milich manufactured adapter, which everyone has said works the best. I'll now give it a try with the nail enamel, if I can find black and white in my little corner of the world.

So, when all is said and done, it doesn't appear that there is any right method and the result is a product of patience and blind luck with, perhaps a little magic mixed in.

Did I get it right?

Jim Evidon

If you follow exactly the procedure I lay out in that article (and the adapter is the correct one, mounted fully, etc.) you should be all set. Every adapter I've painted in this way has worked.

Cheers,

Sean

[ljclark]

Originally Posted by jevidon

Thank you for all the suggestions. Putting them all together I find that I must use flat or glossy paint or an ink marker, and I should be sure to completely fill the milled pits or not fill them, and above all, not paint or ink the remaining pits, or in the alternative make certain that they are painted white. Then I should get perfect results the first time,....or not.Did I miss anything? Jim Evidon

Maybe you did.

If you think that not fully filling the bit pits is an option, perhaps you did miss a little.

Ink markers are not designed to make permanent markings on metal, so if permanency is your intent and you want to use ink markers...

Paint pens, Testors or Humbrol paint, or nail polish -- probably no significant difference. None of them will work well it you don't make sure that you've done adequate surface preparation prior to applying the paint/polish.

I misinterpreted Sean's use of nail polish...The bit about transferring polish to a puddle and then using the toothpick to fill the bit pits. Nail polish is viscous and that method is fine. A 000 or 00 paint brush will work better than a toothpick for less viscous enamels. Also, with paint and a small brush, you probably won't need to use a credit card as a doctor blade.

Flat vs. Glossy? My experience tells me that flat is better. As stated in an earlier posting, the original gloss black enamel didn't work, but applying clear flat overcoat on the same paint spot caused it to work. This experience could be classified as a "CLUE".

And finally, are you using the 28/90 adapter? If you aren't, it just doesn't matter.

[ljclark]

Originally Posted by jevidon

For my CV 15mm lens, I am using the adapter sent to me by Milich, which he informed me is a 90mm; the same one which Reid confirms is the correct one for that lens.
Jim

Sorry...Missed this in my earlier post. You still need to check the frame lines and the adapter fully seats. If all is OK, then we're back to paint spots.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by ljclark

..... the nail polish brush is way too large for applying the paint.......

As is a table tennis bat or a four inch house painter's brush. However; small brushes do exist [the size one would use for spotting prints], and that might be a better tool to use.

I now have a 437 year supply of black, and white nail varnish. I coded an LTM8 mount yesterday, simple to do, works perfectly.

The really comforting thing about going the nail varnish route [despite my protestations that it wasn't for my nails - honestly] is that I now have something in common with Sean Reid; getting funny looks from my community. They don't understand us.

.................... Chris

[johnalex141r]

Originally Posted by jevidon

Now for my problem. I used a sharpie to code the 25mm lens (100110) and voila, the M8 recognized it as a 24mm which is close enough. However, no matter what I do to code the Milich flange for the 15mm CV, I can't get the camera to recognize it.

Jim;

1) I had a real problem with my 15mm, I had the right frame-line adapter, and had the correct paint to make it into a WATE, but it never was recognized.

Once I realized that I had to set the camera lens detection to ON/UV-IR (or something close) it worked perfectly.

Check your lens detection - setting it only to "on" will NOT work with the WATE coding.

2) you can hold the frame selection lever to a specific place, and/or slightly over or under rotate the adapter and see if the pits are just not quite in the right place.

Once you have it properly done, it's done.

JohnS.

[cbretteville]

Jim,
There is a bug in firmware v1.201 that might be causing whit you're experiencing. The camera does not record a focal length for lenses it sees as WATE if you set the lens detection in the camera to "On", you have to set it to "On+UV/IR". In older revisions of the firmware it recoded the focal length to 18mm if lens detection was set to "On". Once you set it to "on+uv/ir" you should see the focal length selection menu.

Mine is mounted using a Millich adapter and is recognized properly by the camera. I have used matte enamel paint om my adapters.

Cheers,
- Carl
.