Advice for an M8 rangefinder newbie

[suden]

I received this beautiful camera yesterday and have been playing around with it and doing some comparison shots with my 5D and it is definitely a different beast altogether, that's for sure.



That said, there are things I really love about the M8 (the solid build, the deliberate *thunk* of the shutter when you take a shot, and just the feel of getting back to basics to name a few).

And then there are some things that I have questions about...the white balance is very inconsistent (I have it set to automatic and it seems to vary almost from shot to shot) and many shots taken in low light tend to look somewhat muddled and too often have a red tint/hue.
I am aware of the IR issue, but I'm kind of surprised that this issue surfaced so quickly (if, in fact that's what this is) as in my research, it seems to be an infrequent occurance that only occurs once in a while and mainly with black and gray synthetics whereas I see it across the entire image. As a side note, I do have the current firmware installed. Also, I have the lens detection set to "on" now...correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's supposed to be set to "ON + UV/IR" only if you have the IR filter attached (haven't sent away for my free ones from Leica yet). Anyway, I had the lens detection set to "on" initially, and discovered that it somehow gotten set back to off-perhaps that will make a difference as well.

I also have it set to RAW, which is what I normally shot in....as well as aperture priority mode which is what I prefer to shoot in given the choices.

I am also having a lot of issues with focusing-especially using a narrow depth of field. I've tried several test shots and nothing is anywhere near sharp....very soft and the focus is lacking. Not sure if it's me or the camera at this point...although I have a feeling it's probably me-I guess it's been a while since I've gotten back to the basics of photography...talk about a humbling experience! I plan to take it out and shot some landscapes and buildings, etc. later today. 
In the meantime, here's a couple of links to two test shots-any input would be greatly appreciated. These are the .jpg's, so they have a little in-camera processing and they were both shot in Aperture priority (which is what I usually shot in). There is no aperture info listed in the exif (I thought the lens detection fixed this...?) but I think I shot the yard at f/8 or f/11 and the porch at f/4. If you click in the original size, you will see that really nothing locks focus in either shot-I was focusing on the arm of the chair in the porch shot just fyi. 



M8 test shot on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

M8 test shot on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[jaapv]

Welcome!

IR - it is nearly omnipresent and messes up the colour rendering of nearly everything. I bought a new lens recently and was really unhappy until I got the filter.
For excellent AWB load the newest firmware. You should have 1.201
Focussing : make sure your eyesight is excellent. For a range finder you need to correct the dioptre to your eyesight. Small aberrations which you did not notice until now will show up.
For the rest: practice. There are some camera/ lens combo's out there that misfocus, but don't jump to that conclusion without extensive testing.
And - have fun!

[delander]

Jaap,

FW should be 1.201,

Everything that Jaap said, send off for those filters right away,

Jeff

[suden]

Thanks for your replies...I just updated the firmware last night, so hopefully that will do the trick. I think that the diopter adjustment is ok...not sure how to adjust that...?

I forgot to mention that I purchased the Summarit 35mm f/2.5 lens with the M8 as a "kit" (wanted to take advantage of the current rebate)!

And thanks for the warm welcome...glad to be here!

Oh, do you have any issues with lens flare of reflections with the IR filters that Leica supplies? I always use a multicoated UV filter on my lenses and purchased one to go on my Summarit lens when I got the camera.

[jaapv]

You can adjust it by screwing in diopter lenses. I use the Megaperls 1.15x diopter to make focussing easier on my ageing eyes.

[andybarton]

Welcome to the forum!

You cannot adjust the dioptre on camera, unless you use separate screw-in adjustment lenses. Otherwise, you have to do it "on face".

Judging by your Flickr posts, you aren't having too many problems. Be sure to share your M8 work (in the Photo section here), when you feel ready

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by delander

Jaap,

FW should be 1.201,

Everything that Jaap said, send off for those filters right away,

Jeff

Sure, Jeff Typo... A long day at work. I'll edit it.

[luigi bertolotti]

Well, compliments for your new M8, first of all ! And welcome here, too.
Your questions require ather questions to you... first of all, which lens did you use ? and was it coded ? (the code is a 6 black and white "dot string" engraved into the lens flange). If it isn't, no reason to set lens detection ON, and if you set it ON with uncoded lenses, maybe can happen that it has some instabilty, even if i cannot remember to have read something about. Btw, the lens aperture is not, definitely, available in the EXIF data, for the simple reason that the camera hasn't a sure system to "know" the aperture itself , there is no coupling of the diaph ring to any device that can record it (to be precise, camera software does compute an "estimated aperture" and records it somewhere, but the value isn't precise, and Leica decided apparently not to make it available in the exif editable data).
Focusing: sorry but I cannot make any constructive consideration... I'm not familiar with flickr images... don't know how to enlarge them to give a look at focus... my only observation is that the arm of the chair looks jagged... is the pic the original jpg from M8 or a jpg converted from RAW in some editing tool like PS or similar ?
IR issue: no doubt that it's probably the M8 point that is most striking at first : before acquiring my M8, I red about it, saw some example... my inner thought was "oh, well, sometimes, maybe...", then when in one of my first pics taken with M8, no filter, I shoot my daughter in a blue gown... ouch ! a n awful violet ! Ok, IT'S really a problem: so, to make it simple, the rule is "mount always the UVIR filter, period".
White balance: has been a problem for many, and for me too, but general consensus is that with the last firmware release it has been rather well tuned : personally, I prefer not to use AWB in standard daylight or incandescent lamps in interiors, but observed anyway that some vary situations I got with AWB prior to the last firmware update have disappeared... but my problem is that I haven't direct comparision with other digital cameras... M8 is my only digital... you have a 5D... I do not find it strange that you have the feeling of a different, and possibly less stable AWB behavior.
Go on, take other pics, and, if you like, post some issue directly as attached images in your post (it's easy to learn how to make it)... and, of course, when you'll get some NICE pic, post them in the photo section !!!

[SJP]

It looks like you have a 35/2.5 summarit from the EXIF data? If so are you using a lens hood? If not it could be flare. Any summarit users out there to confirm this hypothesis?

The sharpness itself looks OK to me - but the images are a bit small to really judge. I tried examining the actual file for the yard but that did not help much.

[suden]

Originally Posted by andybarton

Welcome to the forum!

You cannot adjust the dioptre on camera, unless you use separate screw-in adjustment lenses. Otherwise, you have to do it "on face".

Judging by your Flickr posts, you aren't having too many problems. Be sure to share your M8 work (in the Photo section here), when you feel ready

Thanks...of course, only two most recently posted are from the M8 (the test shots)...the others are from my trusty 5D...which I am thinking of selling to help finance the M8-unless I win the lottery..then I could keep both!

Of course, I'd better learn to use it first...I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with focusing...should I have set it to infinity for the yard shot? There's got to be an easier way to achieve focus...I mean, Rangefinders synonymous with street photography which requires some fast focus skills to say the least. I know the theory of zone focus, but I'm a bit fuzzy on it. Feel like a need to enroll in photography 101 at this rate! LOL

[suden]

Originally Posted by SJP

It looks like you have a 35/2.5 summarit from the EXIF data? If so are you using a lens hood? If not it could be flare. Any summarit users out there to confirm this hypothesis?

The sharpness itself looks OK to me - but the images are a bit small to really judge. I tried examining the actual file for the yard but that did not help much.

No lens hood...yet! If you click on where it says "all sizes" above the photo, it will take you to a page where you can choose "original size" then you can see that it's actually totally out of focus

Even better, here's the direct links for both:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/susande...03233/sizes/o/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/susande...n/photostream/

[suden]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Well, compliments for your new M8, first of all ! And welcome here, too.
Your questions require ather questions to you... first of all, which lens did you use ? and was it coded ? (the code is a 6 black and white "dot string" engraved into the lens flange). If it isn't, no reason to set lens detection ON, and if you set it ON with uncoded lenses, maybe can happen that it has some instabilty, even if i cannot remember to have read something about. Btw, the lens aperture is not, definitely, available in the EXIF data, for the simple reason that the camera hasn't a sure system to "know" the aperture itself , there is no coupling of the diaph ring to any device that can record it (to be precise, camera software does compute an "estimated aperture" and records it somewhere, but the value isn't precise, and Leica decided apparently not to make it available in the exif editable data).
Focusing: sorry but I cannot make any constructive consideration... I'm not familiar with flickr images... don't know how to enlarge them to give a look at focus... my only observation is that the arm of the chair looks jagged... is the pic the original jpg from M8 or a jpg converted from RAW in some editing tool like PS or similar ?
IR issue: no doubt that it's probably the M8 point that is most striking at first : before acquiring my M8, I red about it, saw some example... my inner thought was "oh, well, sometimes, maybe...", then when in one of my first pics taken with M8, no filter, I shoot my daughter in a blue gown... ouch ! a n awful violet ! Ok, IT'S really a problem: so, to make it simple, the rule is "mount always the UVIR filter, period".
White balance: has been a problem for many, and for me too, but general consensus is that with the last firmware release it has been rather well tuned : personally, I prefer not to use AWB in standard daylight or incandescent lamps in interiors, but observed anyway that some vary situations I got with AWB prior to the last firmware update have disappeared... but my problem is that I haven't direct comparision with other digital cameras... M8 is my only digital... you have a 5D... I do not find it strange that you have the feeling of a different, and possibly less stable AWB behavior.
Go on, take other pics, and, if you like, post some issue directly as attached images in your post (it's easy to learn how to make it)... and, of course, when you'll get some NICE pic, post them in the photo section !!!

Aha...well, I will change the lens detection setting right away as I definitely have a coded lens attached....that very well could make a difference.

Per the IR issue...guess it's more prevalent than I thought and I'd better register and send off for my filters...I just hope that don't present a problem as far as lens flare and picking up reflections too much...guess it's a matter of which one you'd rather live with.

If you see my other post, I provided direct links to the original files of the test shots...these are jpg files, but I always shoot in RAW.

Thanks again for everyone's help and input so far... you make me feel right at home here!

[SJP]

Weird, for some reason the links do not seem to work (no permission to see this page) & viewing your photostream the other sizes option does not seem to be available (works fine for my own photo's on flickr).

Are you sure you have fully mounted the lens (i.e. you hear the click of the locking lever)? This has happened before & could also explain loss of sharpness. If you are focussing at f/11 basically anything goes because the depth of field is so large.

[stunsworth]

Welcome to the forum.

The latest version of the software made a big improvement to AWB.

Focussing is down to practice I'm afraid - if you've used a rangefinder camera before I apologise for being patronising <grin>.

[suden]

Originally Posted by SJP

Weird, for some reason the links do not seem to work (no permission to see this page) & viewing your photostream the other sizes option does not seem to be available (works fine for my own photo's on flickr).

Are you sure you have fully mounted the lens (i.e. you hear the click of the locking lever)? This has happened before & could also explain loss of sharpness. If you are focussing at f/11 basically anything goes because the depth of field is so large.

I just checked my Flickr settings and apparently you have to have a Flickr account and be signed in to get to the "all sizes" page...sorry...that's news to me! I will try to figure out a way to post the files directly to the forum.

[suden]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Welcome to the forum.

The latest version of the software made a big improvement to AWB.

Focussing is down to practice I'm afraid - if you've used a rangefinder camera before I apologise for being patronising <grin>.

Nope, I am a bona fide rangefinder virgin...but what's bugging me is how hard can it be to focus on something...especially if it's immobile?! Again, I am humbled by this experience so far...and determined to figure it out! Guess I've just gotten lazy with DSLR's and using AF the majority of the time.

[SJP]

you need to set 'download' to 'anyone' then it should work:

When people are looking at the main display page for one of your photos or a video (e.g.), they will see a button labeled "all sizes" underneath the title. From there, they can download any of the different sizes available, including the original file, unless you choose to prevent it.

Preventing people from downloading something also means that a transparent image will be positioned over the image on the main photo page, which is intended to discourage* people from right-clicking to save, or dragging the image on to their desktop.

If people are unable to access a photo or video of yours -- for example if you've marked it as private -- they won't be allowed to download the original either.

People with free accounts aren't able to offer their original files for download.

[suden]

Ok! I think it was a setting that I missed and I fixed the Flickr thing...you should be able to see the images if you give it another try! Sorry and looking forward to more of your comments!

SJP: we must have posted right at the same time!

[Daniel Ortego]

Welcome Suden,
You’re in luck because I was exactly like you not long ago when I couldn’t focus a damn thing! I was certain that my camera and/or lens was the culprit. There was no way that I could shoot an entire session without one keeper’. As it turned out, I simply didn’t understand the basics. Now, I’m shooting and smiling. When you first nail it, the feeling is unforgettable! There is simply no other camera that provides as much personal satisfaction as the Leica with a quality lens. Ok, IMHO of course.
Regards,

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by suden

Nope, I am a bona fide rangefinder virgin...but what's bugging me is how hard can it be to focus on something...especially if it's immobile?!

Practice I'm afraid. To gain some confidence try shooting at something like f8 to start with, that'll give you lots of depth of field. And make sure the lens has firmly clicked into place.