Advice for an M8 rangefinder newbie

[suden]

Originally Posted by Daniel Ortego

Welcome Suden,
You’re in luck because I was exactly like you not long ago when I couldn’t focus a damn thing! I was certain that my camera and/or lens was the culprit. There was no way that I could shoot an entire session without one keeper’. As it turned out, I simply didn’t understand the basics. Now, I’m shooting and smiling. When you first nail it, the feeling is unforgettable! There is simply no other camera that provides as much personal satisfaction as the Leica.
Regards,

Thanks for the encouragement...that's exactly the way I feel...maybe there's hope for me yet!

[suden]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Practice I'm afraid. To gain some confidence try shooting at something like f8 to start with, that'll give you lots of depth of field. And make sure the lens has firmly clicked into place.

Oh yes...I did check the lens and there was a small *click* so it should be in place...might try again, though just to be sure-I need to give the sensor a quick puff with the rocket blaster anyway as I have quit a few specks right out of the box.

[delander]

Coming from a 5D you must have experience of specks on the sensor. There are some thoughts that theses initial specks on the M8 are from shutter oil.

I had my M8 wet cleaned by my dealer and after that the problem has much diminished.

I too have a previously beloved 5D, you probably wont use it that much from now on!

Persevere with the focusing, a magnifier might be useful bit you should be able the focus a 35mm lens without.

Have fun, there is no other camera like it.

Jeff

[suden]

Originally Posted by delander

Coming from a 5D you must have experience of specks on the sensor. There are some thoughts that theses initial specks on the M8 are from shutter oil.

I had my M8 wet cleaned by my dealer and after that the problem has much diminished.

I too have a previously beloved 5D, you probably wont use it that much from now on!

Persevere with the focusing, a magnifier might be useful bit you should be able the focus a 35mm lens without.

Have fun, there is no other camera like it.

Jeff

Oh yes...there were specks on my 5D right out of the box as well. I really don't think there is a camera made that doesn't have some. Tried the blower on the M8, but didn't really help that much. Eventually I will attempt to wet clean...but I'm going to wait until it's absolutely necessary.

Went out today and had much better time of it...great with people, objects, but still struggling with landscapes and the like...wouldn't infinity be the setting much of the time as a rule for landscape and narrow depth of field?

But yes, I can tell...I am going to love this camera...will post some photos when I get it together!

[lars_bergquist]

Originally Posted by suden

Nope, I am a bona fide rangefinder virgin...but what's bugging me is how hard can it be to focus on something...especially if it's immobile?! Again, I am humbled by this experience so far...and determined to figure it out! Guess I've just gotten lazy with DSLR's and using AF the majority of the time.

The most exact focusing technique, when possible, is to use the rangefinder patch as a split-image rangefinder. Select a vertical line or contour, and compare the line inside the patch and outside it. If there's no displacement, you are home. This is a good technique to start learning with.

Then you can go on to other techniques: coincident contours within the patch only – maximum contrast in the patch – jumping dots (focusing on a dot or very small detail, and seeing if it is displaced when you move the camera so it moves in and out of the patch). I do make focusing mistakes occasionally, but not more often than an AF system does. And I can make a half-profile portrait and decide which eye I want to focus on.

As for eyesight correction: The finder frames and patch are at an apparent viewing distance of 2 meters. If you can see clearly at that distance, without or with specs, all is well. I have strong presbyopia and use progressives, and I have learnt to instinctively place the eyepiece against the level of the glass where the strength is right. No problem at all. Correction lenses are a frost, because I hate the 'specs on–specs off' drill and I don't want to be half-blind outside the camera finder!

The old man from the Age of Brilliant Finders

[SJP]

So after inspecting the larger files I see what you mean. It looks like flare & IR so getting the hood and 'free' filter sounds like good advice.

The shutter speed is fast enough to exclude motion blur. The focussing as such also looks OK as everything is equally soft regardless of distance.

Is this the out of camera jpg? If so it makes sense to compare with results from processing the DNG via Capture 1 LE or whatever you prefer to use. I never use the in camera jpg option as it slows the M8 down considerably due to the computing power needed for the conversion and it brings no obvious benifits.

Shoot DNG only unless you want to use it for taking 1000+ snapshots on one SD card in the latter case use jpg only and live with the reduced quality & slower capture rate.

[diogenis]

Hello Suden and congrats on your purchase, I'm sure you will enjoy the camera.
I am also a very new user since I acquired mine 3 months back.
I never had an issue with focusing, I did everything right from the start, but I understand there is plenty of dexterity/skill involved in that focusing procedure that will make both of us faster and happier.
Recently I came back from photographing my Vila for advertising purposes and I am really happy as I corrected a lot of mistakes made from older so called "pro photographers".
Me too, I had some trouble with dirt on its sensor but I have purchased some kits from visual dust. I will also try and assemble a cheap dust free chamber to clean it safely

[zlatkob]

Originally Posted by SJP

The shutter speed is fast enough to exclude motion blur. The focussing as such also looks OK as everything is equally soft regardless of distance.

The problem could be camera shake. The shutter speed for both photos is 0.033 seconds, i.e. 1/30th second. The lens is 35mm, effectively a 50mm on the M8. For a photographer with steady hands, that's handholdable, but for many people it's not fast enough to produce sharp results. When nothing is really sharp, camera shake is likely.

[suden]

Originally Posted by SJP

So after inspecting the larger files I see what you mean. It looks like flare & IR so getting the hood and 'free' filter sounds like good advice.

The shutter speed is fast enough to exclude motion blur. The focussing as such also looks OK as everything is equally soft regardless of distance.

Is this the out of camera jpg? If so it makes sense to compare with results from processing the DNG via Capture 1 LE or whatever you prefer to use. I never use the in camera jpg option as it slows the M8 down considerably due to the computing power needed for the conversion and it brings no obvious benifits.

Shoot DNG only unless you want to use it for taking 1000+ snapshots on one SD card in the latter case use jpg only and live with the reduced quality & slower capture rate.

I always shoot in RAW, in this case, I was shooting in DNG + Jpeg so I could do a comparison of the two images just to see how the M8 handles in camera processing for the rare occasion that I might use that file type.

I'm going to send off for my filters today...hopefully it won't take too long to receive them. I am trying to determine what size the second filter should be since they send you two.
I'm also just now in the process of familiaring myself with 3rd party lens options as they are more affordable (Leica is always my first choice, but I have to give my wallet a break for now)! Am I right to conclude that as long as the lens is compatible with the M mount screw type systems, that an adaptor is not needed? It seems that the only time I might need an adaptor is if I purchase an older Leica lens...? I am seriously considering the Voigtlander 40mm f/1.4 as I always prefer to have a low light capable lens in the mix and so far, the reviews are good and the price is right!

I'm also seriously considering the hand grip as I think that will definitely help with holding the camera more steady.

[jaapv]

Another thing worth doing: set the camera to DNG+ JPG fine, ISO 1250, high contrast, colour B&W. Save as a user setting. That will enable you to switch instantly to B&W mode. Not only will the LCD turn B&W, the Jpg saved with the DNG is quite a good B&W conversion in its own right. You still have the DNG to play around with as well. The CV Nokton 35 1.2 is, imo, preferable to the 40 mm lens, giving near-Noctilux results witout the pain. And yes, the grip is a must-have.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Another thing worth doing: set the camera to DNG+ JPG fine, ISO 1250, high contrast, colour B&W. Save as a user setting. That will enable you to switch instantly to B&W mode. Not only will the LCD turn B&W, the Jpg saved with the DNG is quite a good B&W conversion in its own right. You still have the DNG to play around with as well. The CV Nokton 35 1.2 is, imo, preferable to the 40 mm lens, giving near-Noctilux results witout the pain. And yes, the grip is a must-have.

Good idea... is there a specific reason for 1250 set ?

[Daniel Ortego]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Practice I'm afraid. To gain some confidence try shooting at something like f8 to start with, that'll give you lots of depth of field. And make sure the lens has firmly clicked into place.

Damn good advice! Suden, it's stuff like this, that you simply can't find anywhere else unless you register with DPI as well.
Regards,

[suden]

Hi again all....I just posted another test shot and the good news is, I'm getting better at getting the focus right and the whole depth of field hyperfocal thing is making more sense... but the difference in color renderings between my M8 and 5D concern me.

If you go to: Flickr: suden's Photostream

you will see the two most recent test shots-the top is the M8 and one underneath, the 5D. The focus is actually more spot on with the M8, but the color renderings-especially greens- are way off....way too much yellow. Plus the highlights in the trees are much more blown out (granted, I don't have a hood for the Summarit lens and did have one on the Canon L lens). The 5D has the color spot on. Is this the infamous IR issue I am seeing? If so, it's more of an issue than I have read...I mean, this goes way beyond affecting just black synthetics.

I have sent off for my two IR filters...hope they get here soon if that's the case. Otherwise, is something wrong with my camera?!

As always, I appreciate your comments and thanks for all of the great tips so far...you all have been so very helpful and I really appreciate it!

[stunsworth]

It's probably IR contamination as you suspect. The filters will probably correct the problem. The effect of IR on foliage has been discussed here in a few threads.

[tollie]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Good idea... is there a specific reason for 1250 set ?

I think the bw jpgs produced by the M8 are pretty good... and the high iso 1250 gives the file a grain that is a bit like film. Especially if you push the exposure a bit.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Good idea... is there a specific reason for 1250 set ?

It gives just the amount of structure I like. Of course, shooting 160 and using the Alien Skin plugin gives far more control.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by suden

Hi again all....I just posted another test shot and the good news is, I'm getting better at getting the focus right and the whole depth of field hyperfocal thing is making more sense... but the difference in color renderings between my M8 and 5D concern me.

If you go to: Flickr: suden's Photostream

you will see the two most recent test shots-the top is the M8 and one underneath, the 5D. The focus is actually more spot on with the M8, but the color renderings-especially greens- are way off....way too much yellow. Plus the highlights in the trees are much more blown out (granted, I don't have a hood for the Summarit lens and did have one on the Canon L lens). The 5D has the color spot on. Is this the infamous IR issue I am seeing? If so, it's more of an issue than I have read...I mean, this goes way beyond affecting just black synthetics.

I have sent off for my two IR filters...hope they get here soon if that's the case. Otherwise, is something wrong with my camera?!

As always, I appreciate your comments and thanks for all of the great tips so far...you all have been so very helpful and I really appreciate it!

It is very clearly IR contamination. It is typical for bright green foliage to shift to olive/yellow. Your exposure: The M8 is a bit different from other digital cameras. Normally, on the 5D you would be pushing the highlights as much as possible to preserve shadow detail. The M8 uses an algorithm that puts most detail in the shadows anyway, so you expose just like you used to do with slide fim: preserve the highlights. Afterwards, if so desired, you can pull up the shadows in post-processing.

[jaapv]

Sorry, I timed out on my edit so it has to be a new post. Actually, the M8 is at its best at manual exposure. The strongly centre-weighed measuring will enable you to scan around the subject and adjust exposure to the area of your choice. Check the histogram at all times - only specular highlights should be blown out. Having said that, I confess to leaving it on AE most of the time and using AE lock. If the going gets tough, an incident light meter will help