M campaign

[ho_co]

If I'm off base, moderators, feel free to do as you will with this post. Someone must have already started a thread on this topic; if so, accept my apologies for overlooking it.

I just received from Andreas the L-Camera Forum Newsletter requesting submissions for the M campaign.

My feeling is that the ad agency is feeding the wrong end of the horse. One doesn't begin by dreaming up features to sell, because almost any other camera on the market can beat the M8 if you're citing specifics.

Example: How slow can you hand-hold? M8 1/15 sec. Meaningless question, meaningless answer. Time changes the answer. I'm much less stable than I used to be. Focal length is a factor. People vary. And whatever answer we give, any dSLR with image stabilization will beat the M8 in the same person's hands.

Example: If you say 'my camera weighs only 545 g,' someone will argue that his heavier camera is easier to hand-hold because gravity helps steady it.

The marvel of the Leica is the unique combination of simplicity, haptics, optics and electronics.

The rule is: "You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle."

Don't set up a series of questions and then say, "Show me a picture that illustrates the answer to these questions."

Do say, "Show me what you can do with a Leica."

Leica brochures in past years always showed excellent images. All the pictures were excellent. When you looked at Hasselblad brochures, most pictures were excellent, but not all. Rollei 6006 brochures had a few great pictures. Nikon's brochures looked then just as tacky as they do now, because they're trying to sell features instead of images.

Leica is more fun to use and makes better pictures because it feels right and works right *and* because it's fun to use.

But when we get into the business of selling features instead of images, we'll lose because someone will always have a feature we don't have.


Bitte, Herr Kaufmann, erlauben Sie es nicht, dass die Anzeigenagentur uns auf diesen Weg führe!

[jaapv]

I'm glad they are at least doing something... The offerings on their website - the testimonial shots - I know I do wildlife, but an Eagle's head has nothing to do with the essence of the M8. The children's birthday party - an appeal to SUV-driving mums? are rather sad to say the least. High time to get some real Leica-M users in....

[bill]

Um,

There's a whole sub-forum for this out in the real world:

Leica M Campaign - Leica User Forum

Regards,

Bill

[erl]

Ho_Co I am in total agreement with you, despite submitting a number of images myself. I chose categories randomly for the very reasons you state. Most, if not all, my images demostrate what a Leica M can do, but not specifically under the given categories that I tried to 'squeeze' into.

My quick browse of uploaded images revealed nothing special relating to the selected categories and I think any viewer, including the submitting photographers, would have to agree. Further, I have stated elsewhere that I am dissappointed with the display quality of the images.

[chrism]

Originally Posted by ho_co

Example: If you say 'my camera weighs only 545 g,' someone will argue that his heavier camera is easier to hand-hold because gravity helps steady it.

Momentum, or inertia if you prefer, is mass x velocity and thus independent of gravity. Otherwise I can't argue with any of your points!

Chris

[WPalank]

Originally Posted by erl

My quick browse of uploaded images revealed nothing special relating to the selected categories and I think any viewer, including the submitting photographers, would have to agree. Further, I have stated elsewhere that I am dissappointed with the display quality of the images.

Actually, I have enjoyed many of the images posted and the interpretations of the artists (photographers).
Secondly, no problem here as far as display quality. As someone mentioned above, possibly you aren't utilizing full view. Easiest way to describe how to get there is click on the red hyperlink title of the image (which should bring up a page of the image and some EXIF data), then click on the image itself to bring up full view.

[offshore]

Personally I welcome Leica's attempt at involving owners of the M8 to participate in the company's direction. Most of what I see from other manufacturers ad campaigns involve only proven professional photographers. Even if you don't get selected, hey, you had a shot to be a contender and it took minimal time to prepare and download the images. If you are selected you'll have had the opportunity to participate in the future of a camera company that has brought you so much pleasure in photography over the years.

[jimmy pro]

Originally Posted by erl

Most, if not all, my images demostrate what a Leica M can do,

Not meaning to be argumentative but I always thought images mainly demonstrated what the photographer can do. Sure it's the strategy of advertizing to make gullible guys think that buying the product will make them able to do as good as the examples in the ad whether it's making photos with a camera or getting laid by a hot chick by smoking a certain brand of cigs. But let's be honest here, if you need help from the camera to make your pictures better, then most likely things like autofocus, matrix metering, anti-shake, and all that junk are going to get you there rather than an M8 which requires the photog to much more understand and deal with technical aspects of photography. The so-called simplicity of a Leica is a relief from all the buttons and functions and bells and whistles only to someone who knows how to achieve it all manually, and above that, wants to do it all manually. What it seems to me is that if Leica wants to maximize sales then they need to figure out exactly who there target market is and why they buy Leicas, and then taylor there marketing to appeal to that group.

[mat_mcdermott]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

What it seems to me is that if Leica wants to maximize sales then they need to figure out exactly who there target market is and why they buy Leicas, and then taylor there marketing to appeal to that group.

I think that's what they are trying to do with this appeal. All of the categories seem (more or less) to be things which they perceive (rightly, wrongly, or partially) are desireable characteristics in a camera that their target market wants.

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by chrism

Momentum, or inertia if you prefer, is mass x velocity and thus independent of gravity.

Chris--
Thanks for the correction!

[ho_co]

I think the posts here are indicative of what I was saying. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

jimmy pro is right that the beauty of the Leica is that it does what you ask it to do, and you need to know what to ask.

offshore and Jaap are right that the company must do something other than what it's been doing. I'm glad to submit a few pictures hoping that something can come out of doing so, but I'm no photographer and they need better than I can supply.

I don't know how the images are to be used, but with erl I'm disappointed with the general level of submission, my own included.

My view is that good pictures sell the camera. Good pictures come from good photographers. And are there that many good Leica M photographers today?

Of course, we on the forum are the converted, so what do we know? We may actually not be the ones to ask.

I'm on Leica's side, and I hope the M campaign works.

[erl]

Originally Posted by WPalank

Actually, I have enjoyed many of the images posted and the interpretations of the artists (photographers).
Secondly, no problem here as far as display quality. As someone mentioned above, possibly you aren't utilizing full view. Easiest way to describe how to get there is click on the red hyperlink title of the image (which should bring up a page of the image and some EXIF data), then click on the image itself to bring up full view.

William, you are perfectly correct about the display image enlargement. Thank you, and Andy Barton in another thread, for enlightening me. Trouble is, I am "technically challenged" and did not work it out for myself. Probably that is why I feel so comfortable with a Leica.

[erl]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

Not meaning to be argumentative but I always thought images mainly demonstrated what the photographer can do. Snipped

Jimmy, I do agree with your observation, up to a point. Most certainly, the image belongs to the photographer, but with a superb tool that exceeds the limits of others, the same photographer may do even better. That I believe, is where I operate much of the time, so I can honestly accredit some of my successes, in part, to the camera(s) I choose. I think we are probably in total agreement here.

[rob_x2004]

... I welcome Leica's attempt at involving owners of the M8 to participate in the company's direction...

Jesus Christ.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

Not meaning to be argumentative but I always thought images mainly demonstrated what the photographer can do. Sure it's the strategy of advertizing to make gullible guys think that buying the product will make them able to do as good as the examples in the ad whether it's making photos with a camera or getting laid by a hot chick by smoking a certain brand of cigs. But let's be honest here, if you need help from the camera to make your pictures better, then most likely things like autofocus, matrix metering, anti-shake, and all that junk are going to get you there rather than an M8 which requires the photog to much more understand and deal with technical aspects of photography. The so-called simplicity of a Leica is a relief from all the buttons and functions and bells and whistles only to someone who knows how to achieve it all manually, and above that, wants to do it all manually. What it seems to me is that if Leica wants to maximize sales then they need to figure out exactly who there target market is and why they buy Leicas, and then taylor there marketing to appeal to that group.

A photographer can't take a picture without a camera and lens regardless of their vision or what they can do. When you buy property it's location, location, location, when you buy a camera system it's optics, optics, optics and to a large extent, in digital photography, how well the sensor resolves an image before processing. There are also some intangibles in photography such as how the camera and photographer work together to accomplish the vision. Having to struggle with a camera in the field when lighting is changing or subject matter is changing can affect how the vision is accomplished, or not. Although a camera is a machine a photographer is just another person without one and their vision is just a thought until the camera brings it to fruition.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by rob_x2004

Jesus Christ.

You can just call me Ron. What should I call you?

[Venkman]

Are they gonna pay for the photos used or are the PGs supposed to live from 15 megabyte of fame?

[offshore]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Are they gonna pay for the photos used or are the PGs supposed to live from 15 megabyte of fame?

It is stated in the email that announced the campaign that Leica would pay to use the selected photos. It would be up to the photographer and Leica to work out the price but I would imagine that Leica, like most publications has a minimum they are willing to pay.

[rondeb]

Anyone know what the limit is on number of photos uploaded? I keep getting a message saying I've exceeded the number of uploads.

Thanks,
Ron