Leica shutter sound

[grduprey]

Originally Posted by j. borger

Yes it is that bad .... i did not manage to take one single streetphotograph without people looking up and/or noticing the sound in 1,5 year.
It is perhaps not anoying when taking pictures at a wedding or concert.. but if you want to be unnoticed .. the M8 sound is too loud .. especially the rewind!
I had far less issues with the R-D1 in this respect!

I find your report to be very hard to believe. I have shot with mine in Chicago on the street and could not hear the shutter at all from 4 feet away, when my wife was using it to take my photo. No one in the immediate area even noticed the camera firing. I retired in January and my office partner used my M8 to take photos at the party and I could just barely hear it in a relatively quiet room. I have used it in a quiet restaurant and no one yet has looked over in my direction when I have taken photos. My M8 is just over 1 year old, and while the motor does make some noise it has never been objectionable, and I have never had anyone tell me the noise was disturbing them. I find it is noisier to me than those around me.

Gene

[terrycioni]

Originally Posted by chris_tribble

Terry, Guy, others... you may not have noticed the correspondence in another thread. Check this: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...tml#post501412
... It indicates that some of our problems are going to be solved without having to do the "upgrade"...

Best

Thanks Chris, elegant and I believe the right direction. Excellent work and much appreciated.

Kind Regards. Terry.

[pleeson]

I bought a demo M8 from Kurland, then got an email from Leica to send it in for a printed circuit replacement, and they also "adjusted all parts under warranty" .
No mention of any shutter work on the repair ticket.
I had no issues with it, but wanted to get it done as it has only a 1 year warranty.

At any rate, I swear the shutter sounds much quieter than before.
I wonder if there is already a stealth shutter upgrade underway...

[gravastar]

Originally Posted by pleeson

I bought a demo M8 from Kurland, then got an email from Leica to send it in for a printed circuit replacement, and they also "adjusted all parts under warranty" .
No mention of any shutter work on the repair ticket.
I had no issues with it, but wanted to get it done as it has only a 1 year warranty.

At any rate, I swear the shutter sounds much quieter than before.
I wonder if there is already a stealth shutter upgrade underway...

Unless the shutter speed dial has been changed to 1/4000 max I suspect not.


Bob.

[rweisz]

Originally Posted by gravastar

If he was shooting with a Canon 1DMk3 then it has a special "silent mode" where the mirror return and shutter cocking is delayed until you release the shutter button. Probably the 1DsMk3 also has this. It works very very well indeed and all you hear is the "snick" of the shutter until you let go of the release after you have taken the picture. In comparison the standard mode sounds loud.

Bob.

Now that's something I'd consider worth paying Leica for an upgrade. I wonder, would it require a hardware change or could it be done with a free firmware upgrade?

[chris_tribble]

The message from Mr Daniels indicates that it can be done via firmware. A lot of us have been hoping for this for a long time, but now it does seem to be part of Leica's game plan!
Check: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...tml#post501412

[rweisz]

"I cannot confirm that it will be in the next FW update, but we are checking it." doesn't say anywhere it can be done with firmware, or am I missing something? But if it can, or if it needs a change of a switch inside, I would go for it in a heartbeat. To me it definitely absolutely makes more sense than replacing the shutter, with a slower top speed and slower flash sync, for over a $1K. Unless there is like I've read some people say, a design fault in the original shutter, which even though mine just went south in the same way described by a few dozen others, I don't believe because it's the same shutter (supposedly) in the R8 and I had one of those and shot the heck out of it and the shutter never faultered.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by rweisz

"I cannot confirm that it will be in the next FW update, but we are checking it." doesn't say anywhere it can be done with firmware, or am I missing something?

No, but if re-cocking was initiated by a direct link between the shutter actuation mechanism and the motor, as some suspected, then surely Stefan Daniel would know about this, don’t you think? Obviously, there will be a lot of detail to be worked out, but to me, his answer suggests such a change would possible in principle at least.

[rweisz]

Originally Posted by mjh

No, but if re-cocking was initiated by a direct link between the shutter actuation mechanism and the motor, as some suspected, then surely Stefan Daniel would know about this, don’t you think? Obviously, there will be a lot of detail to be worked out, but to me, his answer suggests such a change would possible in principle at least.

It sounds to me Daniel is trying to hint optimisticly (so as to avoid a barage of probing followup questions) but also remain completely non-committal (so as to avoid being behind Lee in the unimployment line).

[jaapv]

Well, he would hardly write:

> Thank you for your friendly words. We are convinced that these
> release/cocking modes will be very helpful, when quiet operation of
> the camera is important. We will check the integration in one of the
> next firmware updates.

if he knew that it could not be done in firmware. And we have to assume Mr. Daniel knows how an M8 works.

[chris_tribble]

Jaap - agreed. And let's think about it folks. How many of us have had direct emails from the R&D team at Canon or Nikon as we've had to deal with wrinkles in their professional bodies? I appreciate the kind of risk that Mr Daniel may be taking in giving any kind of answer. As things stand I'm OK with waiting for a bit to see how things pan out. The new quiet shutter plus the actuate / re-cock separation will give me the M8 that I always wanted. It's good for my purposes as it stands (ok - a slightly better 1250 / 2500 would be fun), but it will really come back into its own as a discrete photo-reportage tool - and knock the socks off most of the competition in terms of portability, lack of intimidating bulk and some pretty good lenses!

[andrew@andrewkopp.com]

Leica user since 1992. Love the cameras, worship the lenses (F1 devotee) Was SO glad when M8 was announced. Ordered one immediately. So surprised at lack of attention the "purple" black received. A lot of photoshop was required before filters fixed the problem.
Now have just received my camera back from Germany to have the focus adjusted and realigned so my F1 lens will actually focus on what I do - totally different camera - thanks Leica and all at no cost.
Now the noisy shutter. The noise I can cope with (just) but far more importantly I feel the vibration and jarring when the shutter is released is causing unsharpness of the image, much like a SLR, which I have always thought was a basic design fault. My M6s allowed me to sqeeze off hand held exposures down to 1/8 sec. My local dealer pointed out that the problem doesn't exist above 125th sec!
Tell me, isn't the whole purpose of an M Leica low light photojournalist photography?
I will obviously update to the new shutter if it can be proven to allow me to pull off slow exposures - or else I will have to buy a tripot and shoot tethered - oh no!

[jaapv]

How can the vibration (which is there) cause unsharpness, when it is clearly felt AFTER the shutter closes -which is the case.? I have shot the M8 up to 1/2 sec with more than usable results - just like my film M's which show no vibration, but a faint lateral move of the camera caused by the impetus of the shutter.

[offshore]

Most of my shooting is done in the wilderness where the only thing you can really hear is the wind, the birds and the sound of my M8. Comparison? How about a nail driver gun. Leica, please give us a silent mode in firmware upgrade so I don't have to pay $1,200 for a new shutter.

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by jaapv

How can the vibration (which is there) cause unsharpness, when it is clearly felt AFTER the shutter closes -which is the case.? I have shot the M8 up to 1/2 sec with more than usable results - just like my film M's which show no vibration, but a faint lateral move of the camera caused by the impetus of the shutter.

Jaap, unfortunately, Andrew Kopp has posted twice, so there are two threads but on the other one, I've suggested that the shutter lock, which is moving before the shutter opens is responsible and that Leica may have removed it both to quieten the camera and reduce the vibration.

The motor wind (whine?) of course has no effect on the picture just taken but it might have in continuous mode on the next one.

Does seem the imperative at Leica when the original wass designed was to have something which worked at all rather that something which worked well.

[jaapv]

Moderator, can we merge the threads?

[plasticman]

Originally Posted by lars_bergquist

Is it that bad? Put the M8 on a soft support (nothing that acts like a sounding board), let the selftimer release the shutter and listen to it from a point 2m in front of the camera. That is what the subject hears – not what you hear, with your face pressed against the back of the camera. No, it's not that bad.

The old man from the Age of the Hasselblad 1600

Hi Lars - with all due respect, I've heard your shutter fire from a distance of approximately 6 to 8 meters (I'll tell you where this was, if you're interested), and to my ears it was that bad.

But then I think the Epson is loud, and other people tell me it's not. Sound is so subjective.

[caparobertsan]

Hi actually, releasing noise is not that loud(or strange/annoying) but charging of shutter is.
I think gear mechanism or motor they use are not good enough???

[the warrior]

Hey, hey, hey, .....hello.

Yes, noise is high, is peculiar, like no other, is beautiful.

You do not remember that harley Davison registration and patented noise his motorcycle?

Leica should do the same.

Greetings

[marknorton]

The noise and gearbox is quite quiet if you run it out of the camera; it's the lack of vibration isolation which transmits it to the casting causing it to ring like a bell which is the problem.