new Noctilux??

[SJP]

I was at my camera shop buying a 2nd hand MATE (tri-elmar 28-35-50) and were discussing the shutter & LCD upgrade. He was underwhelmed by that - no problems with the current shutter. He had sold >50 M8's so far.

But.......he mentioned that he had heard that Leica will be introducing a new Noctilux 50 mm at Photokina later this year. Can anyone with 'insider knowledge' confirm that?

Maybe they have decided that the current Noctilux needs some improvement concerning vignetting & focus shift? If I understand correctly making the current Noctilux is getting more and more difficult due to glass supply and only a few people in Canada that know how to make them & may be close to retirement age anyway.

My apologies if this turns out to be a wild goose chase. I am only passing on the info.

[jackal]

maybe its a 21mm noctilux !




impossible i think, but we can all dream

[ddp]

Shadowy rumors of a 50/1.0 asph and a 75/1.4 asph have been mentioned.

Keep in mind that when using the Noct in the environment it was designed for, the vignetting is rarely a factor.

[sdai]

If there's no improvement in the camera's focusing mechanism, what's the point of introducing another who-knows-where-the-focus-falls-on luxury item?

[peter_n]

Why would you ever want a Summilux 50/1.0, which is what it will be essentially. The whole point of the current Noctilux is the way it renders. Take those aberrations away and you have a completely different lens. Just use the current Summilux ASPH and faster film...

Edit: Oops, sorry I'm in the digital forum. I meant faster ISO.

[rsh]

With the current Noctilux, I have the best of both worlds with regard to the 50 - Noctilux and Summilux ASPH. Old look and new look. Besides, with the new pricing, I am out of the Leica market for a long time. Translation - I am happy and set with what I have.

[tom0511]

IMO it makes sense to update the Noctilux to a version which doesnt suffer with focus shift problems. (as long as Leica is going to FF in a long term).
Character is one thing but I doubt that Leica had a special character in mind when they introduced the first version of the Noctilux.
However with the hope for a less noisy sensor in the future I think f1.0 is less and less usefull/needed.
cheers, Tom

[marknorton]

If Leica think the greatest need is to replace the Noctilux, I think they are mistaken. 28mm on an M8 is not that wide and Leica has just 3 lenses out of 18 total in the range.

I'd like to see them fix the 35mm Summilux first, then introduce one or more wide-angle Elmars (18/21/24), licence the Zeiss Distagon design and Leica-ize it to produce a 16mm Elmarit and then I'd like a 28mm Summilux. So not much, really.

[luigi bertolotti]

It's well known (see also in the forum) that the PRESENT Noctilux is a problem in specific terms of manufacturing (outsourced in Canadian factory that is no more interested in the business, specific raw materials issues, related to the original glass formulas...) so nothing strange that "something else" is envisioned... I am curious (just this, not personally interested to have a 1,0) to see if they wish to maintain the prestige of 1,0 and the Noctilux brand, but in a focal more apt to M8, like 35... or if they plan to make a double marketing strike announcing together a new 50 1,0 and a Digital FF...

[rosuna]

f/1.0 isn't only about low light conditions. The 50mm f/1.0 lens renders as any other lens due to the shallow DoF and wide angle of vision (fingerprint of the lens apart).

The last issue of LFI has an interesting article on this subject.

Erwin Puts explains and shows why and how lenses have improved in the last 30 years. New glasses, new technologies (raw materials, manufacture), new computer tools... all this open a new world of possibilities.

Lens testing again! (Jan 29, 2008) | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

The Noctilux is a design from 1969, manufactured from 1976. Then, Leica had problems manufacturing ASPH lenses (the previous Noctilux). The glasses catalogue has changed a lot in those 40 years...

Economic sense is a different story. The 75mm focal length, for instance, never was a best seller, and Leica already has two models (Summarit and APO-Summicron). On the other hand, the M8 presents some limitations related to focus precision... so old high-speed designs can be improved but I don't know if this must be/can be a priority now.

Another factor: the R system. Leica will put a lot of resources in its development and updating for the new R10 camera.

[LeonardT]

I agree with Luigi on a few points here. I don't know if the lens is still being made because of the special glass cost and the manufacturing problems. I would more expect a different 50mm f1.0 design using different glass and different manufacturing processes. I don't think you'll see the type of cost reduction as the Summarit line but from a marketing and business plan they have to start to reduce their lens costs.

Len

[thrid]

Maybe Leica has to redesign the Noct, because it uses glass types that contain lead.

There are new EU regulations for products that already killed the Tri-Elmar, Hasselblad Xpan (lead solder) and who knows what else.


I would also not be surprised if Leica is starting to work their way through the lineup, with the intent of redesigning lenses to use the production methods pioneered with the Summarit line.

The Noct is around $6000 now. They can't be selling many at that price.

[Paul_S]

Originally Posted by thrid

Maybe Leica has to redesign the Noct, because it uses glass types that contain lead.

Recently I read a story, which I can't confirm or deny, but interesting though, regarding poisonous elements in glass production. Lead is well known, with Beryllium as another example.
The story was that the Noctilux and S'lux 75 were made in Canada instead of Germany due to the use of the highly poisonous Beryllium in one of the optical elements. The use of Beryllium was forbidden in Germany, while it was allowed in Canada.

Just another angle of view. Don't take it too seriously.

[Olsen]

Having both the Noctilux and it's Canon competitor, the EF 50 mm 1,0L - both bought 2.hand for a song - relative to what they cost, I have been thoroughly cured from the spell of aparture 1,0 optics. None of them are really that good at anything, notoriously difficult to use to what they were intended for; portraiture. You got to have an eyesight of that of an eagle and a lot of luck to place that 7 mm DOF on the correct place.

But used at dark street scenes and landscapes they show a certain 'charm' and a special signature. First of all, I regard them as collector's items that I can impress neighbors and friends, who, most probably, don't understand the significance of aparture 1,0 anyway, - (Then I have only you, guys, to impress!)

Also: It is close to impossible to make a aparture 1,0 lens that has mechanical tolerances that work flawlessly on ordinary cameras where lenses can be taken off and on. Canon has given up and gone for the second best; aparture 1,2. - Not to mention the eagled-eyed photographer who got to have an eyesight among the 1% best of the total world population. - It's amazing how many of these are Leica shooters....

But people are crazy about 'aparture 1,0' lenses (myself included, obviously) and many are willing to pay handsomely for them. Leica should not let this source of income drift pass their door. And they should try to make one themselves. Far more sympathetic than leaving it to a notorious Canadian/American weapons contractor. The challange is to make it in such a way that impossibly tight tolerances can be avoided.

My general advice, though; all the other Leica lenses are far better than the Noctilux. Instead, buy one of them. Like the very good WATE, for instance.

[Eoin]

They have found a way to fix the focus shift between f:/2 and f:/4 and offer accurate focus at f:/1 at any focal point from 0.7m through to infinity. An announcement will be made shortly about Leica's perpetual upgrade program for non functioning lenses.

Mr See recently hinted that further additions to the program would likely include the 35 and 50 Summilux Asph, although no official date could be given Leica would email clients shortly to invite them to purchase additional certificates of entitlement which would secure their place in the queue for first option on successful re-designs and have their names included on a list of generous patrons who are forward funding future lens formulations. This list will be displayed in both the Leica reception area and optical design department to provide an impetus as to why and who we are here to serve .

At $6000 for the current Noctilux they can shove the new one up where the sun don't shine, and believe me f:/1.0 still ain't fast enough.

[marknorton]

I do wonder whether lead and other poisonous elements in the glass is really much of a health hazard. After all, one of the proposed methods of dealing with nuclear waste is to seal it in glass and bury it.

Currently the 28 and 75 Summicron are being promoted on the web-site and it will be interesting to see where the next lens introductions are.

[Albert4321]

I personally rather see some fast and cheap super wide prime.

I love my 50/1.4 ASPH, thank you Leica.

[jackal]

Originally Posted by Olsen

Having both the Noctilux and it's Canon competitor, the EF 50 mm 1,0L - both bought 2.hand for a song - relative to what they cost, I have been thoroughly cured from the spell of aparture 1,0 optics. None of them are really that good at anything, notoriously difficult to use to what they were intended for; portraiture.

My general advice, though; all the other Leica lenses are far better than the Noctilux. Instead, buy one of them. Like the very good WATE, for instance.

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

[Eoin]

Originally Posted by jackal

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

And I'll totally disagree with you, in the situations you quote such as portrait & still life and not using f:/1.0 you can't use the lens properly. One has to compensate for shift of the focal plane to get acceptable results. If guessing the focal point by over or under adjusting the rangefinder patch is knowing how to use the lens properly I bow to your superior photography skills. To me it's guess work and compromise to use such a lens. I do agree however it can produce incredible effects in pictures but this is more to do with the rendering of uncorrected optical flaws which some like and others dislike to the same degree. The Noctilux is fairly unique in it's look to about f:/2.0 but there are many lenses of the same focal length display almost the same fingerprint from that point on. So from my opinion the Noctilux is ALL about the f:/1.0 to f/2.0 aperture range, there after it just becomes a pre Asph summilux or a summicron.

To argue that one does not appreciate a lens because they have no inspirational creativity shows shows a lack of understanding that your art is not everyone else's art. 9 times out of 10 it's the subject matter and composition that makes for a great image, the way a lens rendered it then becomes a subjective matter.

[Paul_S]

Originally Posted by jackal

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

Your Noctilux set of pictures on your flickr pages proofs you're right. Awesome pictures, pleasure to look at. Inspiring. Thanks.