new Noctilux??

[jackal]

Originally Posted by Eoin

And I'll totally disagree with you, in the situations you quote such as portrait & still life and not using f:/1.0 you can't use the lens properly. One has to compensate for shift of the focal plane to get acceptable results.

*shrugs*

Mine focuses fine at all distances.. as i've said in other posts, no problem shooting at F1 on moving subjects and sometimes when the camera is moving as well as the subject. Maybe get yours adjusted. You sound frustrated with it.

Originally Posted by Eoin

To argue that one does not appreciate a lens because they have no inspirational creativity shows shows a lack of understanding that your art is not everyone else's art. 9 times out of 10 it's the subject matter and composition that makes for a great image, the way a lens rendered it then becomes a subjective matter.

Without wishing to appear impolite. Try directing that first comment to the post I was answering because to say that the Noctilux isn't good at anything and that every other leica lens is better, is most DEFINITELY showing a lack of understanding that your art is not everyone else's art. I never said everyone had to like noctilux type images, I just refuted the above comments. For example, to say that every other leica lens is better immediately pre-supposes that EVERYONE values traits like sharpness, freedom from aberration etc. above everything else. Not everyone's art is the same is it - just as you say - so how can any one single lens be BETTER.

[alex7075]

Originally Posted by Eoin

One has to compensate for shift of the focal plane to get acceptable results. If guessing the focal point by over or under adjusting the rangefinder patch is knowing how to use the lens properly I bow to your superior photography skills. To me it's guess work and compromise to use such a lens.

Eoin, what you say is true. Anyway, stopping down gives more depth of field. Since the problem is from 2.0 to 5.6, I found out that the compensation at a given f-stop is always the same at any distance. The only thing is to remember to apply it, keeping in mind the f-stop you're using. When it becomes automatic, the pictures are all sharp and it isn't really guessing anymore. The increasing depth of field leaves a little margin of error.

For example, on this picture taken at 5.6, I focused on the upper part of the wheel. The two crops show the compensation I usually apply when shooting at 2.0 and at 5.6 (I showed it on the pedal because it's more evident).
tot.jpg

compensation at 2.0
2_0.jpg

compensation at 5.6
5_6.jpg

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by Eoin

At $6000 for the current Noctilux they can shove the new one up where the sun don't shine,

Isn't that exactly the kind of place the Noctilux is designed for? Please post some results!

[Eoin]

Oh no , not frustrated with it any more LOL. I sold it for a tidy profit. Again I'll say it's not a problem getting it to focus accurately at f:/1.0 or f:/1.4 for that matter. The problem lies in the f:/2.0 to f:/5.6 range as many have eluded to here.

Perhaps I miss understood your original reply to the post in question, but my reading of it was that Olsen felt none of them were any good at anything, notoriously difficult to use, also didn't suit his intended use of portraiture. He did go on to say they show a certain 'charm' and a special signature. To which your reply was in essence "You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way."

I do agree with him that they are difficult to use and may not suit portraiture due to the shifting focal point at apertures typically used in such photography I also agree with the special signature to the point where stopping down the lens renders this a mute point. However to dismiss his comments out of hand by suggesting he doesn't know how to use it properly or in an inspired way I think very disingenuous.

I would not agree that every lens is better, each has their strengths and weaknesses, my personal preference is the 50 Summilux asph in this focal length after comparing it and the Noctilux side by side. If I had the means I would have both but reality means I had to choose one over the other and I opted for the one with better all round performance and ease of use to match my photographic style. I still keep my 85 Summarex (the grandfather of all Nocti & pre asph Lux) with it's chroma and orbs of mystical highlights mixed into the swirl of bokeh from it's under corrected optical formula to feed my creative side.

[Eoin]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Isn't that exactly the kind of place the Noctilux is designed for? Please post some results!

Yes! in the bowels of low light photography is the perfect situation where a Noctilux would come in handy. Come to think of it, I may have a problem inserting it and do you think I should use a UV/IR to protect the front element. On second thoughts I wonder if it would reduce the resale value. I can just picture the title on the B&S, Noctilux for sale, smells a but whiffy.

[lars_bergquist]

The question is, how many different 50mm lenses can Leica offer and still stay within the bounds of economic sanity? The 50mm Elmar is already gone. I do not believe in a new Noctilux when the present one dies. I do even entertain doubts as to the long-term viability of the Summicron. What, in the digital age, is the practical difference between 2.0 and 2.5?

The Noctilux is an ancient design indeed. It goes all the way back to the Schneider-designed Xenon f:1.5 of 1935, recomputed after the war as the Summarit, recomputed again in 1959 as the Summilux 1.4 (originally 1.4 Summarit!) and discreetly abandoned for dead in 1961/62 when the quite different Summilux was phased in. The design plan was distinctly anachronistic when Mandler resurrected it in 1969! And I do not expect Leica to abandon the 18x27mm sensor very soon either, so that 50mm remains a somewhat odd focal length. I am considering selling off my Summilux, buying a 75mm 'cron instead.

The old man from the Age of the Xenon

[Eoin]

Alex, nice work in showing the compensation that needs to be applied, however I found the closer you came to closest focusing distance the more you had to compensate. from 2.5 meters out tended to be pretty consistent.

I just couldn't live with that, it's hard enough using my brain to calculate adjustments in exposure, allow for frame line inaccuracy, focus, composition and waiting for the right moment and remember to adjust for focus shift. I got into digital M photography for its reliance and challenge on my own basic skill set. I'm already struggling with frame lines, trying to keep reds and purples under control in exposure, some lenses I have focus better if moving the ring from infinity to focal point where others are better from closest distance moving out to focal point. I just didn't want to have to deal with another factor called focus shift. That's the main reason I passed on the Noctilux, otherwise I'd have kept it.

[dfarkas]

At the LHSA meeting in Rochester Dr. Kaufmann spoke about 24 new lenses coming. He stressed "Made In Germany" for all key products. The Noct is of course made in Canada with little control over quantiities. Then, look at the pricing structure for the Noct. Leica doesn't want people to buy the lens. It is a hassle to deal with ELCAN and quantities are far too low. My guess is that it will be phased out. It is also quite an old design and could probably be improved upon with new ASPH and coating technologies. During the Q&A section of his presentation, someone in the audience asked if the rumors of a new Germna-desinged and mande 50mm f/0.95 lens were true. He didn't deny the rumor and said that it might be a possibility. Not a 100% confirmation either but the room was buzzing after that one. Let's see what happens at Photokina.

David

[carstenw]

Like others, I don't think Leica would introduce a new version, ASPH or not, to deal with vignetting or correcting more aberrations, but to make it affordable again, and to get the focus shift under control. As such, I would welcome it, and hope that they would do the 35 Lux Asph the same favour. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and improving the focusability of the lenses helps as much as improving the rangefinder system. Ultimately I think that they will do both.

[Olsen]

Originally Posted by jackal

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

Oh, not again...!

[SJP]

Let's rephrase the thread topic:

Assuming Leica is designing a new Noctilux what should it be able to do?

• Focus dead on at all f/values with zero shift?
• Shorter focussing throw?
• Same or less vignetting?
• Weigh 300 grams less?
• Keep the bokeh & unique drawing & make everyone happy?

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by SJP

Assuming Leica is designing a new Noctilux what should it be able to do?

You forgot that it shouldn't cost more than a Big Mac.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by SJP

Assuming Leica is designing a new Noctilux what should it be able to do?

• Focus dead on at all f/values with zero shift?
• Keep the bokeh & unique drawing & make everyone happy?

Choose one, as you cannot have both.

[Olsen]

Originally Posted by Paul_S

Your Noctilux set of pictures on your flickr pages proofs you're right. Awesome pictures, pleasure to look at. Inspiring. Thanks.

I agree with this. Particularly the shot of the running dogs has this typical Noctilux signature.

[nitrox1]

I just want it to cost less. I have GAS as bad as the next guy, but 6k just seems abscene to me for this lens. For me personally, I could go about 3500 tops for one.

I do really like the results that some of you get with this lens, and noctiLUST seems oh so appropriate a term.

John

[j. borger]

Originally Posted by nitrox1

I just want it to cost less. I have GAS as bad as the next guy, but 6k just seems abscene to me for this lens. For me personally, I could go about 3500 tops for one.
John

The GAS is BECAUSE of the high price tag ....... this does strange things with people because it feeds the myth.....2-3 years ago it was almost impossible to find buyers for a Like New Noctilux for 2000 ........
Great lens with unique signature no questions about it ... but the lens is overhyped ......
i had one loved it and used it as my only lens for about half a year ... after that the charm of 1.0 was over and the negative aspects of the lens took over ... so i sold it!
.

[Ivar B]

Originally Posted by lars_bergquist

The question is, how many different 50mm lenses can Leica offer and still stay within the bounds of economic sanity? The 50mm Elmar is already gone. I do not believe in a new Noctilux when the present one dies. I do even entertain doubts as to the long-term viability of the Summicron. What, in the digital age, is the practical difference between 2.0 and 2.5?

The Noctilux is an ancient design indeed. It goes all the way back to the Schneider-designed Xenon f:1.5 of 1935, recomputed after the war as the Summarit, recomputed again in 1959 as the Summilux 1.4 (originally 1.4 Summarit!) and discreetly abandoned for dead in 1961/62 when the quite different Summilux was phased in. The design plan was distinctly anachronistic when Mandler resurrected it in 1969! And I do not expect Leica to abandon the 18x27mm sensor very soon either, so that 50mm remains a somewhat odd focal length. I am considering selling off my Summilux, buying a 75mm 'cron instead.

The old man from the Age of the Xenon

This is not correct, is it? I think you refer to the first Summilux 50mm here and not the Noctilux. The first Noctilux, the 1.2/50mm from 1966, was a radical design with its two aspherical and manualle grinded lens elements. This lens was supposedly a nightmare to produce and only around a 1000 were made until it was replaced by the 1.0/50 in 1976. This is the oldest Leica M lens still in production, but as far as I know the design was not derived from the old Xenon, although they are both double Gauss which goes back even longer.

[peter_n]

Originally Posted by j. borger

The GAS is BECAUSE of the high price tag ....... this does strange things with people because it feeds the myth.....2-3 years ago it was almost impossible to find buyers for a Like New Noctilux for 2000 ........

I bought mine a couple of years ago for $2K but I had to wait a long time for it as I absolutely wanted an E58 version, but you are right, the market was swimming with E60 versions at that time. I haven't seen an E58 version for sale in a long, long while.

[gvaliquette]

Originally Posted by lars_bergquist

The question is, how many different 50mm lenses can Leica offer and still stay within the bounds of economic sanity? The 50mm Elmar is already gone...

Not quite! When the Elmar (shouldn't it be an Elmarit? - f2.8 ) disappeared from Leica's home page, I saw the handwriting on the wall and bought a new one from B&H in NYC (but through the Web). Got it last week.

The 50mm f2.8 Elmar-M is still listed as "in stock" on B&H's website. If you must have it (I really wanted to, even though I have a pre-ASPH 50mm Summicron), get it NOW! As they say, the supply is limited!

About the Noctilux, let me first say that I do not have one. However, I find it strange to read here that the design is old; so is the double Gauss design and it still is very much alive and well.

Also, some poeple imply that the design is inherently flawed and that the focus shift is "built-in". May I point out that the Summilux-R 80mm f1.4 (which I do own and love) is exactly the same design as the Noctilux and that it does not suffer from significant focus shift.

I cannot comment on the fingerprint of the Noctilux, but the 80mm Summilux-R does have a very characteristic, unique, and, to me, lovely fingerprint.

Guy

[Chuck Albertson]

Well, they wouldn't be able to do much about vignetting without re-writing some hard laws of optics.

The business about lead in some of the glass elements may have some validity--every time I take it through an airport scanner, my bag gets pulled over for inspection because "one of your lenses is dark on the monitor, and we need to take a look at it"--it always turns out to be the Noctilux.