M8 Sensor Spots revisitied?

[rdubois]

Hmmmmm

As a newbie on this forum and to the M8 I would not presume to disagree with those of you with more experience but I must say that I have some sympathy with the original poster and less for those whose only advice is " ...dont shoot blank white walls and empty sky at f16". Sometimes empty sky might actually be part of the picture and believe it or not some people do shoot at f16.

I mostly shoot Canon and of course sensor dust is an accepted part of DSLR's and I have no problem whatsoever with cleaning but I am finding that the M8 is substantially more prone to spots: be they dust or oil splatters. When I first got the M8 there were some dust spots but when zoomed in I discovered thousands of much lighter spots which in my view didn't look as if they were caused by dust.

I cleaned the sensor with 2 passes of Dustaid then 2 passes of Eclipse E2 and the sensor was absolutely clean.

Having just returned from a few days in Dubai with lots of very bright light and yes the occasional shot did demand a portion of very blue sky and yes my aperture was occasionally 16+ I notice again a very few spots which I am happy to attribute to dust but rather more of the lighter spots although nowhere as much as when the camera was new. The interesting thing is that I only used one lens over the two days so the sensor was never exposed.

I have only shot 500 frames with the M8 so will be curious to see whether things might settle down.

As a postscript and before being accused of Leica bashing I must say that I am delighted with the M8 and the spots are just a little irritation. The difference between the Canon with a 24-70 and hood and the diminutive M8 means that I can be unobtrusive and capture people at work or in the streets in a way that I could not do with the Canon. This is just fantastic in countries where the people are either camera shy or don't want to be photographed at all. And yes, the quality of the images are simply stunning and certainly as good as the Canon but with a little extra something to them.

[wlaidlaw]

On checking today, my sensor had both dust and spots. Not surprising, since it is about 6 to 8 weeks since my last clean. I decided to use a Dust-Aid sticky pad to remove the dust before a wet clean, so that I did not drag dust across the sensor. The Dust-Aid pad split across the foam, as I was peeling it off the backing sheet with the wand. I hate to think what would have happened, if this had happened, as I was peeling it off the sensor. The shutter runs so close to the sensor, it would almost certainly have destroyed the shutter when the battery ran down, when the shutter closed. You can't exactly scrape a stuck on half pad off the sensor. I have emailed Dust-Aid to get their reaction but meantime I would strongly recommend DO NOT USE DUST AIDS.

Wilson

[rdubois]

Originally Posted by wlaidlaw

On checking today, my sensor had both dust and spots. Not surprising, since it is about 6 to 8 weeks since my last clean. I decided to use a Dust-Aid sticky pad to remove the dust before a wet clean, so that I did not drag dust across the sensor. The Dust-Aid pad split across the foam, as I was peeling it off the backing sheet with the wand. I hate to think what would have happened, if this had happened, as I was peeling it off the sensor. The shutter runs so close to the sensor, it would almost certainly have destroyed the shutter when the battery ran down, when the shutter closed. You can't exactly scrape a stuck on half pad off the sensor. I have emailed Dust-Aid to get their reaction but meantime I would strongly recommend DO NOT USE DUST AIDS.

Wilson

Very interesting thankyou. Would you let us know what the Dust-Aid response is? The kit I have came with a Camera Compatibility sheet which clearly approves for use with M8

[wlaidlaw]

Originally Posted by rdubois

Very interesting thankyou. Would you let us know what the Dust-Aid response is? The kit I have came with a Camera Compatibility sheet which clearly approves for use with M8

They have already sent an interim response, apologizing and saying their technical team will be in touch me on Monday. They sound worried, as they well should be. It looks to me as if their sole product may be failing "unsafe". It is not just an M8 problem, this failure would make the product unusable for any camera.

Wilson

[adan]

A couple of comments on the original oil-spot question:

1. I have had no specks in pictures that I would attribute to oil. I DID notice that both my M8s were more susceptible to dust specks, that were a bit tougher to remove, when they were new. I decided (after hearing similar things from others) that there may well have been a manufacturing residue, NOT visible on its own, that made the sensor cover glass slightly more "sticky" and attractive to dust, and that this residue was eventually removed by the first 2-3 sensor cleanings.

2. Dust artifacts on the M8 may look slightly different than dust on other sensors, because the cover glass is thinner (dust on it is closer to the pixels), and because there is no AA filter. The dust might tend to cast "shadows" with harder edges on the M8, and perhaps (I don't know where diffraction cuts in) odd patterns from diffraction around the dust edges would appear.

[charlesphoto99]

Originally Posted by rdubois

Hmmmmm

As a newbie on this forum and to the M8 I would not presume to disagree with those of you with more experience but I must say that I have some sympathy with the original poster and less for those whose only advice is " ...dont shoot blank white walls and empty sky at f16". Sometimes empty sky might actually be part of the picture and believe it or not some people do shoot at f16.

Ummm, it was a joke.

And as most Leicaphiles know Leica lenses tend to be at their worst at f11 and up (they are designed to be at their best from wide open to f5.6 or so). One of the reasons it's so nice to have a top speed of 1/8000 now instead of the old 1/1000th on the film Ms.

[freshwater_life]

I guess the case is now closed as I received a replacement M8 with no "liquid" spots and only one dust spot that was easily cleaned.

[wlaidlaw]

I received a refund from Dust Aid. They claimed that some of the pads had been wrongly cut and that the low tack surface had been folded over the protective sheet. This resulted in the sponge pads tearing when one tried to remove the pad on the end of the wand. I regret in spite of this, I shall not be buying this product again. I have acquired an Arctic Butterfly 724 for dust removal (I use a Giotto Rocket first) and will stick with wands and E2 for "deep cleaning" or oil spots.

Wilson

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by freshwater_life

I guess the case is now closed as I received a replacement M8 with no "liquid" spots and only one dust spot that was easily cleaned.

Just wait - after a few weeks you will be cleaning your sensor...

[MichelB]

Originally Posted by freshwater_life

How do other M8 owners feel about these "spots". Should Leica admit they exist and provide a free cleaning and fix service or should I just give in an clean the sensor with something that will remove the oil?

I bought my M8 in July 2007 and after 10 pics, 2 with blue sky, I noticed that there were oil spots. 2 months after I went to Solms for a free cleaning and Customer Service said to me that they were not oil spots but spits (sic) i.e. "postillons" !!!, but never opened the shutter. Since and after 800 pics, only some dust spots.
Michel

[wlaidlaw]

I would rather have to clean the sensor than have a shutter failure due to inadequate lubrication. Now that I am around 3000 actuations, the oil spots are much less frequent and most of the time I can get away with an Arctic Butterfly clean. I thought Leica had freely admitted that the shutter will throw off some lubrication, especially from new. It will be interesting to see if the new Titanium blade shutter does the same, given that Titanium does not need as much lubrication.

Wilson