Summarit Series 35,50,90 Ugly Test

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Really a good work, Guy: for myself, the only regret is that the lens I'm targeting is the 75... would like a lot a 75 Cron/Summarit side by side...but I expect it will result not so different from the 90...

Luigi i would tend to think the 75 is identical to the 90 Summarit . I know Sean is testing the 75 cron, I have the 75 lux but need a 75 Summarit. I may try a test with my 75 lux and the 90 Summarit and just match the framing , it really should give us some idea what those subtle differences are

[tom0511]

Thanks for the testing.
To me the new lenses have more pleasing/"better" bokeh.
Then Again I find the skin shows less texture with the new lenses, and a little bit less pop.
I think price-value wise 75/2.7 and 90/2.5 are interesting to get. For 35 and 50mm I would rather get a used cron than a new Summarit.
Cheers, Tom

[MarcRochkind]

Guy--

You say "NO White Balance . I want to see the color of the lens and what it outputs."

This won't tell you anything about "the color of the lens and what it outputs."

Were you shooting raw? If so, then LR applies its default. Maybe you didn't adjust white balance and the other parameters, but that doesn't mean that the default wasn't applied. There is no other way to view an image.

If you were shooting JPEG, then the processing was applied in the camera.

One way or another, an interpretation was applied to the raw image as recorded by the sensor.

--Marc

[blakley]

Originally Posted by tom0511

Thanks for the testing.
To me the new lenses have more pleasing/"better" bokeh.
Then Again I find the skin shows less texture with the new lenses, and a little bit less pop.
I think price-value wise 75/2.7 and 90/2.5 are interesting to get. For 35 and 50mm I would rather get a used cron than a new Summarit.
Cheers, Tom

To my eye it's more complicated than that. The 35 Summarit has better bokeh than the tested 35 Summicron, but its sharpness and contrast both seem lower. On balance, I'd call this race about even but wouldn't buy the Summarit if I already had another lens - but if I were starting from a "no lens" position I'd buy the Summarit.

The 50 Summarit seems to me to be a clear loser against the 50 Summilux ASPH, but hey, that's the best 35mm-mount lens in the world at the moment, right? Here I would definitely forego the Summarit for the Summilux, both because of the speed differential and because I like everything about the picture quality of the Lux better.

The 90 Summarit seems to me to be the real winner in this test. Both in bokeh and in sharpness it seems entirely the equal of the 90 Summicron - in fact it's hard to tell the two sets of pictures apart. Given the substantial size and weight advantage of the Summarit, I might well consider getting one of these.

[guy_mancuso]

Everything was RAW and yes no getting around LR default but that is not WB. That you have to do in LR which i did not. This is as close to coming off the sensor as you can get . C1 it may look slightly different using different profiles. There really is no way to get the absolute data visually there will always be a algorithm in the DNG files to begin with that leica has in there firmware. As end users this is as close as we can get to that is just turning everything off. There really is no absolute when testing because you are always tied into software in the end.

[MarcRochkind]

Guy--

You say "There really is no way to get the absolute data visually..."

This is absolutely true, of course. And, it is the main point of my post. So, we agree!

What we don't agree about is that the default always includes some setting for Temp and Tint, which is what LR calls "white balance." When it comes to these parameters, all you have demonstrated is the effect of the LR default on these lenses.

As I have said in other posts here, what really matters is not what a given lens and camera gets you coming into LR (or whatever), but what it lets you do coming out.

As you have said (quoted above), there is no way to run an objective test on color, contrast, etc. -- the parameters settable in LRs Develop module.

Why pretend that it is objective when it is not?

--Marc

[LichMD]

Thanks for taking the time to do this Guy.
And thanks also to your daughter for putting in the time.
wonderful shot of her with the 75 lux.

[guy_mancuso]

Well with Daylight and the M8 it comes into actually both c1 and LR as 5900 kelvin. Now is that Leica or is it the DNG itself set for that, or the raw processors seeing it that way. That I am not sure. My bet is it is coming from the Leica DNG as 5900 kelvin but yes you are correct tint and WB are set BUT if there was a white card in there to WB off of than those values would change. So what to do you do, we know we can change anything really so just bringing it off the sensor there is no chance to WB wrong. It is what it is and we could test to WB too , i guess the question is do we gain anything from that per say. Really all we are trying to see is if there is a difference between the lenses . My theory is just take all that adjustment in software out as best we can, really just so it does not screw anything up.

Now in real world we would certainly WB , color correct and all that but testing is weird you have to take out as many variables as you can. One reason i don't like testing because is there will always be a question mark.

[robertwright]

great test-unfortunately made me sad bc now I am coveting the 50asph lux over my pre ashperical lux. It is a stellar lens.

All the summarits have what seems to be the new leica look, as against what we are used to with the old 50 lux, the 75 lux, etc. The seem cleaner without being harsh like some of the zeiss looks.

A BIG piece of this is how they really look in the corners full frame...waiting for the M9...

[guy]

Gosh, Guy, that's really interesting. I'm seriously considering a 35mm as my next lens (after the 50 lux and the 21 elmarit) and had somehow discounted the Summarits from contention. But I way prefer the bokeh of the Summarit 35 to the 35 lux – which seems to have a weird, somewhat aggressive patterning going on (a bit like I've sometimes seen in Noctilux shots). So I think I'm firmly with Tim and Thomas on giving the 35 Summarit bokeh a thumbs-up.

You may have saved me the best part of a thousand quid there...!

[msendin]

Thanks you both for your big effort.
Guy, could it be for some differences you note about the Summarit at 2.5 going better at highlights than the Lux at the same aperture that the Summarit really can not go to 2.5 and it is a little slower?

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by guy

Gosh, Guy, that's really interesting. I'm seriously considering a 35mm as my next lens (after the 50 lux and the 21 elmarit) and had somehow discounted the Summarits from contention. But I way prefer the bokeh of the Summarit 35 to the 35 lux – which seems to have a weird, somewhat aggressive patterning going on (a bit like I've sometimes seen in Noctilux shots). So I think I'm firmly with Tim and Thomas on giving the 35 Summarit bokeh a thumbs-up.

You may have saved me the best part of a thousand quid there...!

Guy just for clarification it was the 35mm cron version IV pre-asph which is a 20 year old design but I suspect the 35 2.8 Summarit will be a lot like the new 35 cron ASPH but maye a little less contrast. The new Cron is somewhat on the contrasty side and this is the nit picking part i was saying

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by msendin

Thanks you both for your big effort.
Guy, could it be for some differences you note about the Summarit at 2.5 going better at highlights than the Lux at the same aperture that the Summarit really can not go to 2.5 and it is a little slower?

Well i don't know the exact speed of the lens it could be a touch faster if anything. But it maybe more the design is more flat than contrasty. I don't really like the word contrast here , let's say more exposure or DR range that the Lux may have.

[guy_mancuso]

Here is a shot of the three Summarits i have. I shot it on a old metallic background and it's ugly but just wanted to show sizes

[guy_mancuso]

Here they are next to there counterparts laying down. I was rushing to get this shot

[guy_mancuso]

The whole lot of them 35 Summarit , 35 Cron, 50 Summarit, 50 Lux, 90 Summarit and 90 Cron

[guy_mancuso]

Need to blow the dust off. LOL I took all the filters off for this

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Well i don't know the exact speed of the lens it could be a touch faster if anything. But it maybe more the design is more flat than contrasty. I don't really like the word contrast here , let's say more exposure or DR range that the Lux may have.

Hi Guy,

Thanks for all the examples - very interesting. The lens is really about a F/2.4.

Cheers,

Sean

[guy_mancuso]

Thanks Sean sort of what i was seeing. Sean and i just talked on the phone and we both are really liking these. Look for his sharpness test to his will be very accurate being done in the studio. I may just do something outside for that one. This stuff is killer. LOL
Trust me it is worth the subscription to his site, you have to nuts to do this. ROTFLMAO

Seriously I have a lot of respect for this stuff because it is very hard to keep everything dead perfect and Sean does a very good job of that. But he needs to write me cliff notes. LOL

Okay a little color test with a Macbeth color chart just to see absolutely if there is a difference. Here shot in the studio in a controlled setting with strobes and i also DID WB these from the bottom second left patch . One thing I did notice is my 35 cron does focus closer than the Summarit by .5 feet

[guy_mancuso]

50mm