Thumbs Up

[haribo]

Originally Posted by garyvot

It would be more costly to machine and manufacture, but it would be huge to integrate a hot shoe pass-through into a future ThumbsUp design. Then, the thing could really become part of the camera full time. There are too many times when I've got a flash or accessory viewfinder on the camera...

I believe Tim is working on it. Guess, in a couple month or so there will be a version with a hot or cold shoe.

[norm_snyder]

I guess I'm late to the party, and this thread only started this morning!

I have been using Thumbs Up Mod. 1 on my M8 since they became available. First, it falls at about the same position [for my hands and typical grip] as the advance lever on my M6 when pulled out of its parked position. It provides an anchor for my thumb, and seems to make my grip on the front of the camera [without the Leica grip] firmer, more secure and better located. I doubt people have been lifting their M film cameras by the advance levers--obviously the advance lever doesn't, if used as intended, destroy the top deck or film advance mechanism. It balances the camera in my hand, even with a 35mm Nokton or 75mm 'Lux. Since I don't pick up the camera by the Thumbs up, but instead use it to stabilize my grip, I feel the shoe receives very little upward force. As, no doubt, others have noted, there is no slop or flex.

A superb idea, wonderfully executed. It has come to occupy a "don't leave home without it" status on the M8 similar to the T-A designed and executed rapidwinders on my M6's. The quality is at that level, the delivery was rapid [faster than I can get a letter from CA], and e-mail response attentive and rapid, as well.

I'm looking forward to obtaining Tim's lens coding device, if it is executed anywhere near as well, and wish him success with his cottage enterprise.

NS

[pekem]

Well the "Thumbs Up" device looks a litttle down market for me but I have to say that the device for coding lenses looks very interesting if ever it could be marketed at a sensible price.

[MJones]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

How about if it got snagged on the strap and pulled away from the body and/or upward? I'm sure there are mechanical engineers here who could supply the actual computations, but the top-plate is a relatively thin casting and the Thumbs-Up is quite a long lever. I believe the maker ought offer to "piggy-back" a warranty on top of the Leica warranty as Cameraleather does, in case of the odd happenstance the camera should be damaged as a result of the Thumbs-Up and Leica disallows sorting it under warranty. Until then as concerns my own M8 I'll have to give it a thumbs-down.

When applying pressure against the TU it's actually a very short lever (short moment arm) because the fulcrum point is not at the hot shoe or mount area, but rather it's where the Thumbs Up begins to taper away from the back of the camera body. In fact it's the short moment arm that you would be working against in apllying pressure.

For getting someting wedged between the TU would be difficult. It's flush to the point where it tapers away. I'm sure you could pry something in but so far b ag straps, camera straps, clothing, etc.has gotten snagged but not even close to being wedged between the two.

I can even pick up my M8 (with a 75slux attached) by grabing ONLY the thumbs up just to see how well it holds and how well the hot shoe holds. There's no flex or what would appear to be excessive stress. With a flash attached and it's height (long moment arm) considered I would suspect there to be more potential stress on the shoe mount than what the TU could create. That's a guess though.

It's a great product and I have full confidence it's not going to break anything. And if it does I'm willing to pay the repairs for what I get with this product.

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by MJones

When applying pressure against the TU it's actually a very short lever (short moment arm) because the fulcrum point is not at the hot shoe or mount area, but rather it's where the Thumbs Up begins to taper away from the back of the camera body.

I disagree completely with your assessment of the location of the fulcrum point, which is most assuredly at the hot-shoe. I showed a picture of it to an orthopoedist having a master's degree in mechanical engineering who is exquisitely knowledgeable in such matters and he concurs.

For getting someting wedged between the TU would be difficult. It's flush to the point where it tapers away. I'm sure you could pry something in but so far b ag straps, camera straps, clothing, etc.has gotten snagged but not even close to being wedged between the two.

I can even pick up my M8 (with a 75slux attached) by grabing ONLY the thumbs up just to see how well it holds and how well the hot shoe holds. There's no flex or what would appear to be excessive stress.

...and once again reverts to small-sample anecdotal evidence, unmeasured eyeballing, and casual speculation.

I have full confidence it's not going to break anything. And if it does I'm willing to pay the repairs for what I get with this product.

Of everything you said, that is the only part whose validity cannot be successfully challenged.

[haribo]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

I disagree completely with your assessment of the location of the fulcrum point, which is most assuredly at the hot-shoe. I showed a picture of it to an orthopoedist having a master's degree in mechanical engineering who is exquisitely knowledgeable in such matters and he concurs.



...and once again reverts to small-sample anecdotal evidence, unmeasured eyeballing, and casual speculation.




Of everything you said, that is the only part whose validity cannot be successfully challenged.

Alright. Enough is enough. This is getting really negative here.
You are clearly not interested in the Thumbs Up. That's fine. Your decision.
But that doesn't allow you to beat up everybody here who actually uses the TU and appreciates it, with your arrogant pseudo scientific gibberish!
Heck, showing a picture of it to an orthopedist doesn't make much of an scientific proof. D'oh.
Either try it for yourself in person or simply shut up.

[Tony C.]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

I disagree completely with your assessment of the location of the fulcrum point, which is most assuredly at the hot-shoe. I showed a picture of it to an orthopoedist having a master's degree in mechanical engineering who is exquisitely knowledgeable in such matters and he concurs.

What a joke – and a bad one at that. If you are in any way serious about proving your theory relating to the dangers posed to the hot-shoe by the Thumbs Up, then obtain one and test it.

Also, your condescending attitude towards those who have provided "anecdotal" evidence clearly reveals your blinkered perspective (to put it kindly).

Let's see...not a single Thumbs Up user who has posted his or her impressions of the device has expressed any concern about the shoe, but you have an exquisitely knowledgeable orthopedist who has concerns about the design. I think I'd better contact Tim and request a refund.

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by haribo

Alright. Enough is enough. This is getting really negative here.
You are clearly not interested in the Thumbs Up. That's fine. Your decision.
But that doesn't allow you to beat up everybody here who actually uses the TU and appreciates it, with your arrogant pseudo scientific gibberish!
Heck, showing a picture of it to an orthopedist doesn't make much of an scientific proof. D'oh.
Either try it for yourself in person or simply shut up.

No call for rudeness. If you define "pseudo scientific gibberish" as words and concepts you can't comprehend, then I admit to the crime

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by Tony C.

Let's see...not a single Thumbs Up user who has posted his or her impressions of the device has expressed any concern about the shoe

That's the definition of anecdotal I'm sure you could find a forum where a few dozen people express no concern over global warming too.

[haribo]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

No call for rudeness. If you define "pseudo scientific gibberish" as words and concepts you can't comprehend, then I admit to the crime

Just shut up. Will ya!

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

No call for rudeness.

ROFL!

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by haribo

Just shut up. Will ya!

What are you, twelve years old?

[MJones]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

I disagree completely with your assessment of the location of the fulcrum point, which is most assuredly at the hot-shoe. I showed a picture of it to an orthopoedist having a master's degree in mechanical engineering who is exquisitely knowledgeable in such matters and he concurs.



...and once again reverts to small-sample anecdotal evidence, unmeasured eyeballing, and casual speculation.




Of everything you said, that is the only part whose validity cannot be successfully challenged.

There are several fulcrum points. The one I intially referred to is where the TU tapers away from the camera body. This fulcrum point is created when your thumb presses against the TU - this is intended, normal and most common fulcrum point that is levered by the TU.

There are other fulcrum points that are at different points around the shoe mount. I don't disagree there. But these fulcrum points have so far not been an issue for me. I'm sure something could break if enough pressure is applied in the right spot. We'll see. I'll take my chances. And I'll enjoy what the TU offers.

But don't pretend to guise your comments as scientific proof when they are nothing more than Xeno-like games as to whether something will hit the mark or not. I have the TU and it hits spot on. If you want to say it doesn't that's fine, but don't tell me how mine is not working as intended.

[haribo]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

What are you, twelve years old?

No. Just don't care much for arrogant know-it-alls who are utterly full of themselves and self-enamored with their own talk.

[charlesphoto99]

Well some members here would prefer to live their life in a bubble, with any and all risks laid out for them with warranties and guaranties yadyada. The thumbs up seems like a good idea and if you want to use it, use it. Stupid to think the manufacturer should be held at risk.
I've been using a Vivitar 285HV without the poorly designed Wein safe sync and it works just fine despite many members here shouting that the sky would fall in without it. But if it had fried my M8 do you think Vivitar would cover the price of my M8? Ridiculous notion.

Too many nanny's on this forum IMO. They're Leicas for gods sake - they're supposed to go to war zones etc and back (though it seems a fair amount of usage here constitutes photographing the wife/girlfriend over the breakfast table or the lobby of hotels while on holiday).

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by MJones

I have the TU and it hits spot on. If you want to say it doesn't that's fine, but don't tell me how mine is not working as intended.

I never did that. I said I suspect it has the potential to damage the camera, which neither you nor anyone else in their overplayed, self-righteous defence of a silly little trinket have disproved.

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by haribo

No. Just don't care much for arrogant know-it-alls who are utterly full of themselves and self-enamored with their own talk.

I'm relieved that you possess a vocabulary beyond "shut up!"

[haribo]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

I'm relieved that you possess a vocabulary beyond "shut up!"

You on the other hand, don't seem to be able to grasp the meaning of those two simple words.

[haribo]

Originally Posted by charlesphoto99

Too many nanny's on this forum IMO. They're Leicas for gods sake - they're supposed to go to war zones etc and back (though it seems a fair amount of usage here constitutes photographing the wife/girlfriend over the breakfast table or the lobby of hotels while on holiday).

True but that happens when people mistake a camera for a status symbol.

[tummydoc]

Originally Posted by haribo

You on the other hand, don't seem to be able to grasp the meaning of those two simple words.

Anyone who tells another forum member to "shut up" in attempting to intimidate and attack that individual, feels he is exempt from forum etiquette, disrespects the community at large, and debases the reputation of the forum. That is the meaning of those two simple words.