Could there come a M9 soon ?

[hankg]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Now the second question is the same specs in a R10 what would you pay , the same 7400 that you would for a canon 1dsMKII. Your simply not going to get FF for cheap.

Well it depends on time frame. The Mamiya 22MP is $10,000., the Canon 1Ds MKIII which is supposedly 22MP will likely be around 7,500. So if an R10 comes out next year and it's 24x36 and 16+ MP an $8,000 price would be no surprise. Maybe on the SLR side the high end is now essentially competing with medium format. After all a lot of the studio and event shooters who were using medium format now use 35mm DSLR's.

But the M is a different market and documentary style photography (the M's reason for being) has always been the domain of 35mm. I think it would be nuts to hike the cost of the M by say $2500 to accommodate a higher resolution chip. At 10MP the M8 is already a match for 35mm film. I'd rather see a 12MP 24x36 chip or even a cropped format chip with a little bit more resolution and more dynamic range with improved RF accuracy, ISO capabilities and other refinements aimed at documentary style shooting at the same or lower price point.

[guy_mancuso]

Hank let's think about yields and buying power for a second. If leica was smart which they are they should be buying the same sensor for the M and the R exactly the same so they can buy more at a much lower cost than buying two seperate sensors. So both camera have that FF 18 mpx sensor. Also if they did something like this they can share the same firmware at the basic level and just tune seperate features. This idea would save them a ton of money in R&D by using the same sensor and give them the buying power of 2 systems. To me this is exactlty what they should be doing plus for the end user they have a choice to go M or R and if they had both system even better becuase they match each other in file. If it was me and my company that is what i would be doing, you save a ton of money and able to keep the costs down. Plus you give the end user a choice of system

[Olof]

Originally Posted by finkaudio

Hi,

I'm expecting a digital CL type of camera to go together with the new cheaper lenses.

A CL could be the reason for the increasing price of the M8 (so they try to get some distance between these two cameras).

[hankg]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Hank let's think about yields and buying power for a second. If leica was smart which they are they should be buying the same sensor for the M and the R exactly the same so they can buy more at a much lower cost than buying two seperate sensors. So both camera have that FF 18 mpx sensor. Also if they did something like this they can share the same firmware at the basic level and just tune seperate features. This idea would save them a ton of money in R&D by using the same sensor and give them the buying power of 2 systems. To me this is exactlty what they should be doing plus for the end user they have a choice to go M or R and if they had both system even better becuase they match each other in file. If it was me and my company that is what i would be doing, you save a ton of money and able to keep the costs down. Plus you give the end user a choice of system

That sounds great. But I don't know if the potential savings would make up for the added cost. It would be great if shared components, modularity and reduced manufacturing costs, etc., could make it possible.

[hankg]

Originally Posted by Olof

A CL could be the reason for the increasing price of the M8 (so they try to get some distance between these two cameras).

Based on the size of all of Leica's digital offerings to date including the 4/3 cameras (2.0 crop factor) I don't think they can produce a camera anywhere near that small with even a 1.5 crop chip. I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 chip formats at different price points sharing the same M body at some point in the future.

[wparsonsgisnet]

All Right! Finally a suitable backup body for the M8!
If we can all scribble here with no shock at a $10k body, surely Leica will be able to make it. Think of all the lens queue backups when it comes -- deja vue all over again (thank you Yogi).

And, best of all, with all that detail we'll have 20 new threads, each, regarding (1) comparisons to 8x10 view camera images, and (2) back focus issues (urgh).

Now, just before the M9 arrives, what I want to know is where the hell is my Fast, Wide, Prime???? C'mon Leica -- this is what you DO -- and I got my wallet in my hand.

Let me just say how pleased I am that we are engaging in this thread. A year ago now, there were regular postings about the death of Leica. This is the only company of its kind. It's NOT a boutique or a company that produces products only for the wealthy (we know this because I own a lot of Leica stuff!). It is however the single company I can think of that produces the best product of its kind and then fixes it forever.

Non c'e male. (Love that Italian: "not so bad.")

Regards to all

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by sdai

You can always find some duct tape to mask the viewfinder and they're cheap ... I've no doubt there'll be another thread on the quality of duct tapes. LOL

I think you're missing the point.

[ronaldh]

...but could there first come some uv/ir filters in the shops please?

[sdai]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

I think you're missing the point.

No, it was intended as a joke ... perhaps a bad one, if so ... I apologize.

[stunsworth]

No need to apologise. I'm sure stranger things than comparing gaffer tape have happened in the audio world. Anyone remember Peter Belt? <grin>

[guy_mancuso]

DON"T buy duct tape that is for your heating and cooling systems in your house. Actually making a joke of this but the fact remains if you really want great tape look for gaffers tape it is expensive about 20 dollars a roll but it leaves no gooey mess and is strong and even comes in colors. LOL

http://setshop.com/advanced_search_r...989a&x=11&y=10

[total_recall]

Originally Posted by sdai

It's interesting to note that Dr. Kaufmann is a M fan while the CEO he hired is a R enthusiast ... nevertheless, Dr. Kaufmann clealy indicates that the R glass are the world's best optics

it's interesting to note that their are still people who believe everything the press is fed with.

[Mark Pope]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

No need to apologise. I'm sure stranger things than comparing gaffer tape have happened in the audio world. Anyone remember Peter Belt? <grin>

Now, there's a blast from the past! I wonder what happened to him. IIRC it was little plastic dots on your amp/turntable and stuff like that?

What about Linn - I can remember Ivor Tiefenbrun stating that you shouldn't have a telephone in the same room as your hifi as the extra transducers would in some way spoil the sound.


Still, you've got to laugh.

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by total_recall

it's interesting to note that their are still people who believe everything the press is fed with.

No it is interesting to note that some have no clue what the best optics are in the world but actually believe they do. Your trolling is getting very tiring and i await the day you actually say something of value.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Hank let's think about yields and buying power for a second. If leica was smart which they are they should be buying the same sensor for the M and the R exactly the same so they can buy more at a much lower cost than buying two seperate sensors. So both camera have that FF 18 mpx sensor. Also if they did something like this they can share the same firmware at the basic level and just tune seperate features. This idea would save them a ton of money in R&D by using the same sensor and give them the buying power of 2 systems. To me this is exactlty what they should be doing plus for the end user they have a choice to go M or R and if they had both system even better becuase they match each other in file. If it was me and my company that is what i would be doing, you save a ton of money and able to keep the costs down. Plus you give the end user a choice of system

I doubt there is much gain " mass buying"of sensors and components. In the camera world 25000 pieces a year is as laughably small an amount as is 12000. The only synergy would be in-house at Solms.

[total_recall]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Hank let's think about yields and buying power for a second. If leica was smart which they are they should be buying the same sensor for the M and the R exactly the same so they can buy more at a much lower cost than buying two seperate sensors. So both camera have that FF 18 mpx sensor. Also if they did something like this they can share the same firmware at the basic level and just tune seperate features. This idea would save them a ton of money in R&D by using the same sensor and give them the buying power of 2 systems. To me this is exactlty what they should be doing plus for the end user they have a choice to go M or R and if they had both system even better becuase they match each other in file. If it was me and my company that is what i would be doing, you save a ton of money and able to keep the costs down. Plus you give the end user a choice of system

did you tell them when you where in Solms?

(it has been discussed _in depth_ that a SLR and a viewfinder M need different sensors but maybe things have changed)

[sdai]

Originally Posted by jaapv

I doubt there is much gain " mass buying"of sensors and components. In the camera world 25000 pieces a year is as laughably small an amount as is 12000. The only synergy would be in-house at Solms.

I can offer my 2 cents on this 'cause I actually know several deals in this industry.

It's NOT up to Leica to decide whether they should buy 10000 or 100000 so to make a difference in unit price.

In most cases, the sensor supplier forces you to sign up a deal with minimum contract price ... bottom line, say you have to shell out 10 million dollars then they'll consider making it for you and it's only after that they're willing to negotiate price for further supply if you need more.

So it makes perfect sense for Leica ... as Guy has already pointed out ... to adopt the same image sensor, and maybe same supporting electronics for both the M and R because ...

If Kodak or anyone else will ONLY agree to sign when Leica put up 10 million dollars, Leica would have to think about it ... what am I gonna do with this many sensors? why shouldn't I put them in as many models as possible? then that's right.

[pklein]

Originally Posted by Mark Pope

I guess it's feasible with LCD technology - it could be linked to the rangefinder cam so that as the lens is focused, not only does it compensate for parallax, but the size of the framelines changes to fit the field of view.

On the subject of chemical elements, Oakley (I think) used to advertise their sunglasses as having a material called Unobtanium in them. Perhaps that's the substance needed for the M9 with FF sensor.

I'd love framelines like those!

And Leica lenses are currently made of Unobtanium. Eventually it will decay radioactively into something else, and we will be able to get them again. Trouble is, nobody knows the half-life!

Maybe we should ask this guy:
L1000597Unobtain-w

--Peter

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by Mark Pope

Now, there's a blast from the past! I wonder what happened to him. IIRC it was little plastic dots on your amp/turntable and stuff like that?

There's a web site. On it there's a claim that if you write the word 'good' on two pieces of tape and stick them on a pair of speakers the sound is improved. If you repeat the process but use tape with 'bad' on it then the sound is unlistenable. Don't know what happens with speakers from a non-English speaking country.

Hmmm, maybe it's the pen.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by hankg

Well it depends on time frame. The Mamiya 22MP is $10,000.,

<snipped>

.

Actually you can get into the Mamiya system for much less than 10K.

The ZD Back is currently, 6.999 and if you have an old 645AF MAC the importer in the US will upgrade the AF to an AFD at no charge. AF bodies were going for about 300 dollars. I'm sure glad I got one with lens and film back last spring for 450...

I have noted the supply of used AF backs at KEH has dried up.