colonel Posted November 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted November 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a M8 that has developed the LCD stain issue. Leica say that I can send it to them (free) so that they can assess if they can repair it or otherwise. My question to you guys is what they are typicaly offering at the moment for cameras they can't repair. e.g. a discount on an M240 (or M9), and how big that discount would be Anyone with any recent experience of this ? many thanks in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Hi colonel, Take a look here Coffee stain compensation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted November 7, 2013 Share #2 Posted November 7, 2013 I would think the upgrade path would be to the M-E. Interesting to see. My two M8s were repaired much earlier when parts were available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 7, 2013 Share #3 Posted November 7, 2013 If mine couldn't be repaired, I'd be filing a claim with my insurance company for full replacement value of a new M. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2013 Share #4 Posted November 7, 2013 If mine couldn't be repaired, I'd be filing a claim with my insurance company for full replacement value of a new M. Yes, so you keep saying. Interesting policy you must have as all the ones I'm familiar with cover loss or damage (including accidental damage if you pay for it) but not, as far as I'm aware, mechanical defects or failure as a consequence of wear and tear. In other words, I haven't come across a policy that provides against theft, damage, etc. and also acts as a kind of extended warranty in perpetuity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 7, 2013 Share #5 Posted November 7, 2013 I keep saying it because that's my policy, and because many others seem to fail to have, or even think about, any insurance whatsoever. It's a good reminder IMO. A camera that couldn't be repaired would be considered a loss. Moreover, it's a premium plan that deals with high end collectibles, so items in this price range require little scrutiny and no appraisals or receipts. As an example, I recently asked if I should insure the various accessories I sometimes carry for travel along with my cameras and lenses (tripod, bag, meter, EVF, etc) that can quickly add up to a couple thousand dollars, and my agent said there was no need and that they would automatically be covered in full in the event of loss. It pays to have quality coverage, although I recognize that not all people qualify for this level, and many locations (countries) don't offer anything equivalent. I use the same plan to insure my photo and book collection, which greatly exceeds my photo gear values. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 7, 2013 Share #6 Posted November 7, 2013 Jeff, As I work in insurance my advice would be to read your policy, and make sure you understand it. Very few insurers will replace an item with a better one. Write off a base model car and they won't give you a new top of the range version - the principle is to leave you in the same position as you were prior to the claim, albeit that some insurers replace new for old, if the same product is still available. The scope for fraudulent claims would be enormous under the terms you state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 7, 2013 Share #7 Posted November 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Give me some credit, please, James. I don't have a high net worth policy because I spent my life with my head up my butt. I have read my policy, and understand it fully. And I've worked with senior execs at many different companies, including the insurance firm I now use, as part of my prior business life. Folks willing to commit fraud over a few thousand bucks would likely never be a position to qualify for my level of coverage in the first place. My policy not only covers full replacement cost at values that I provide, but allows for automatic payment up to 50% higher than those stated values, without having to adjust along the way, in the event the item no longer exists and/or the cost has escalated. As I said above, I even proposed itemizing my various accessories, trying to be up front and proactive, and my agent said "don't worry about that small stuff, regardless of the cumulative value, we'll cover it as needed." He sent me an email confirming. The company is used to dealing with 6 and 7 figure collections, so this is really small stuff to them, even if not to me. My only hope is that others who read these continual threads (usually starting with some unfortunate loss or damage incident) do their own research to try to obtain insurance that meets their particular needs and circumstances. And, yes, they damn well better understand the coverage terms. I'll worry about my own, thanks. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted November 7, 2013 A bit off piste chaps I just wanted to know if its worth sending in and all the time that would take. If its £500 off a M240 that I wouldn't bother, if its £1,500 then I would Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 7, 2013 Share #9 Posted November 7, 2013 Jeff, As I work in insurance my advice would be to read your policy, and make sure you understand it. Very few insurers will replace an item with a better one. Write off a base model car and they won't give you a new top of the range version - the principle is to leave you in the same position as you were prior to the claim, albeit that some insurers replace new for old, if the same product is still available. The scope for fraudulent claims would be enormous under the terms you state. Can't you get replacement cost coverage or as-new warranty in the UK? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 7, 2013 Share #10 Posted November 7, 2013 A bit off piste chaps I just wanted to know if its worth sending in and all the time that would take. If its £500 off a M240 that I wouldn't bother, if its £1,500 then I would I'd send it in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2013 Share #11 Posted November 7, 2013 Can't you get replacement cost coverage or as-new warranty in the UK? Just curious. 'New for old' (or full replacement cost) in the event of loss or damage is pretty standard for this kind of insurance in the UK but it would be unusual for the policy to also cover repair or replacement in the event of a mechanical defect or the item failing due to general wear and tear. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 7, 2013 Share #12 Posted November 7, 2013 IIRC, Leica assume the residual worth of an M8 with the LCD defect over 6 years old is zero (that is, the replacement cost of the LCD would have exceeded the value of the repaired camera). Most M8s are now over 6 years old so it's unlikely you're going to get a spectacular offer from Leica. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kena Posted November 8, 2013 Share #13 Posted November 8, 2013 To answer the OP question..... I just sent my M8.2 in 2 weeks ago and they came back with this offer- Leica M-E $3285.00 Leica M (240) $4250.00 Pretty fair I think, basically giving me $2200 for the body ( fair market value) she would not tell me how she arrived at the numbers and it was non negotiable. My camera was over 4years old and had about 20k clicks on the shutter and never had any issues. I went with the M-E, however it's backordered! This was through Leica USA in New Jersey. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 8, 2013 Share #14 Posted November 8, 2013 I think the M8.2 came out in September 2008, launched at Photokina followed by the M9 in September 2009 (remember 09/09/09?), so that deal for the M8.2 seems quite reasonable. Assuming M8 production stopped in September 2008 (and of course the "age of the camera may be based on purchase date, not production date), that puts the youngest M8 at over 5 years now. It sounds like the M8.2 was in the 2-4 year band but I can't remember the details. At least you have a new M-E to look forward to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 8, 2013 Share #15 Posted November 8, 2013 .... At least you have a new M-E to look forward to. Which is exactly what I suggested to the OP in the second post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 8, 2013 Share #16 Posted November 8, 2013 To answer the OP question.....I just sent my M8.2 in 2 weeks ago and they came back with this offer- Leica M-E $3285.00 Leica M (240) $4250.00 Pretty fair I think, basically giving me $2200 for the body ( fair market value) she would not tell me how she arrived at the numbers and it was non negotiable. My camera was over 4years old and had about 20k clicks on the shutter and never had any issues. I went with the M-E, however it's backordered! This was through Leica USA in New Jersey. The 'upgrade cost' from Leica also depends on the nature of the LCD fault. From what I've seen they differentiate between user damage and component failure. The coffee stain issue doesn't stop one from using the camera of course, so I expect the price will also take this into account. It could work out better just to sell it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bideford Posted November 10, 2013 Share #17 Posted November 10, 2013 I have just received an M from Leica after sending in my coffee stained M8.2 four weeks ago. Delivery was delayed by a week as I was on holiday - so I guess you are talking a three week turnaround (I am based in UK and sent the camera direct to Solms). I was offered a fair discount on either a used M9-P (ex demo - slight sign of use), an M-E or an M. Given that my camera was used when I bought it a year ago, and it had 20000 actuations (although in mint condition) I was more than pleased by the discount offered. It would be discourteous for me to disclose the actual numbers here but I can say the discount was more than what I would have been able to sell the camera for (without the coffee stain). The fact that they would offer to do this gave me the encouragement to invest further with Leica and go for an M. I cannot fault the service/communication provided by Leica. James Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolotse Posted November 10, 2013 Share #18 Posted November 10, 2013 FYI: Last year Leica has exchanged my coffee stained M8.2, which then was still under Leica's 2 year warranty, for free with a demo M9-P giving full warranty again. I've been very pleased by their free of charge upgrade service so far. Carsten Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 10, 2013 Share #19 Posted November 10, 2013 ... It would be discourteous for me to disclose the actual numbers here... Why so? It would be useful for us all here. Unless you are in a non disclosure agreement with Leica of course. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bideford Posted November 10, 2013 Share #20 Posted November 10, 2013 Hi lct, No non disclosure agreement (I don't think I'm that important!) but simply out of courtesy to Leica, however by indicating that the discount was more than the market value of the camera (without coffee stain) I think I have struck a reasonable compromise. If Leica wanted to advertise their position on this then I am sure they would have by now. The fact is, for an out of warranty camera, Leica are not going to simply hand over a new M-E (or whatever). What they are doing is offering a fair (and it is!) discount on a replacement model should you wish to upgrade. After all the coffee stain is cosmetic and a lot of people seem to deride the usefulness of the lcd anyway. I only really used it to check framing, and if I wasn't already considering selling it for an M9-P I would have kept it. James Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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