M8 now in KammaGamma color comparsion data base

[johnastovall]

The Color Transformation Database now allows one to compare the M8 colors to other cameras.

[rondeb]

Looks impressive. Any care to translate this for some of us less technically inclined with color gamets, etc.?
Thanks,
Ron

[Jamie Roberts]

A mildly interesting JPEG analysis (not RAW folks).

I also don't like their gamut methodology--printed patches are notoriously undersaturated. So when they essentially plot the response of a 1d3, 1ds2 and the M8 as being less, essentially, than sRGB, well, that's just wrong and quite misleading.

EDIT: for Ron and others--

First, they're only testing the JPEG response of the camera--or how Leica has dialled in the colour from a RAW data capture.

What they're doing is measuring the pictures they get under controlled lighting of Gretag Macbeth colour targets, then defining the difference in colour (delta C). The greater the difference, in theory, the less "accurate" the camera.

Which is of course mostly hogwash, which they admit themselves, actually. Most colour films--not to mention colour JPEG interpretation--is tweaked for human vision, not accuracy. Sometimes accurate colorimetric data looks quite terrible.

As for gamut--they are limited because printing is limited, and they're shooting a printed target. This tells you absolutely completely nothing about how, for example, the camera will render deep blue lakes or red sunsets. They're simply out of gamut for a GM chart--there are no inks in existence that can reproduce those colours or intensities (as everyone who has seen a sunset knows).

So--on the very limited basis described here--it's an interesting comparison.

Since most people don't shoot under these conditions, or with these intentions, it's only mildly interesting (and mildly useful); the gamut stuff is downright flawed.

[jquimby]

further reading at this site: 16 bit or 14 bit or 8 bit the Leica riddle

KammaGamma » Articles » Solving the Leica M8 DNG riddle

[Max Penson]

Hi guys,

Yes, our database is only for JPEG. RAW colors are to much work . I did write an article about the colors of RAW software when used with M8 RAW files, it is in proofing and should be online soon.

In regards to gamut. Forget about gamut, if you have a camera system that has been mapped to sRGB or aRGB, your are going to get sRGB or aRGB - nothing over that. What we are trying to show you with our gamut plot meant only to be compared between two cameras. It was not meant to show you which has more gamut, theoretically you can have a camera with endless gamut. It meant to show you where are the Red, Green Blue. Or in other words - how the camera maker has transformed the most pure colors available to us.

If you want to understand our color database, you need to understand that there is no such thing as accurate color. Our database will show you how camera makers twist, turn and stretch colors. For reference, we also allow you to view real life colors so you could say "mmm, the greens are slightly twisted towards the yellows compared to real life". Other wise, you don't have what to compare to. As we all know, our human eye can only compare - it has a very weak memory for color.

[Jamie Roberts]

Hey Max--

Thanks for weighing in. As a relative reference as how two manufacturers have tweaked their JPEG response (which as a rule I don't shoot anyway!) then it's indeed useful for those looking for "out of the camera" responses.

[Max Penson]

You know, from what you wrote above I understand that we did not made a clear easy to read documentation, so I think we are about to make some changes and add some quick help text next to the plots. Thank you very much for helping me realize that