Next Firmware? Silent Mode?

[chris_tribble]

In one of Guy's blizzard of entertaining and highly informative postings from his travels in Leica land, he mentioned that the new firmware was not going to be a disappointment...

Fully respecting NDAs and the rest of it, it would be really helpful to get an indication of whether "silent mode" is likely to be one of the features that is either coming in the next update or which is at least considered feasible by Leica. I'm planning some projects, including more performance work, and knowing that this option is going to be available in a nearish future will rescue me from having to get involved in alternative hardware purchases (1D III...).

If any Forum readers have ANY information that they are allowed to share on this it would be great to hear.

Thanks

[guy_mancuso]

It was certainly brought up in my meeting , so they know our desire is there for it. Thanks

My suggestion was on Single mode hold shutter down and will not wind until released . This way you have time to put behind your back or cover it up before the wind goes into motion. Continous stays as is. This technique can be very useful in quiet places.

That was a suggestion but they may put it in the menu also. Not sure how they may handle this request

[sdai]

Guy, I haven't been able to follow your academy thread (too many distracting comments) ... is there any update on SDS? Thanks.

[dspeltz]

Yes quiet mode would be terrific. I was out shooting with several people a couple weeks ago, including several Leica film people (including a well know photojournalist). They had not seen the M8 before. So as we shot, the well know guy took his M6, put it near my ear, and clicked. It was so much more quiet than the M8 (yes, I have film Leicas too but never bothered to compare). The M8 gets attention, and not for the right reason (I love my M8's, don't get me wrong).

I was within a another group a few days later and clicking away. I don't think it was the red dot that had the eyes looking up at me. It was the click, or more important, the sort of rewind noise.

It would be nice to make that less noisy somehow.

I know this thread has been around a while, but I experienced the "looks" first hand the last few days.

The problem with holding the button down and behind you to cover the noise is the same as chimping. It interferes with catching the perfect shot as stuff happens. I don't think I would take the camera away from my eyes to cover noise is there was movement going on I needed to watch and catch.

[chris_tribble]

Guy - really appreciate your prompt reply - don't know how you manage to earn a living and spend so much time on the forum - but hey, I make a living, and here I am - so I guess it's that we're interested in getting things as good as we can...

Hope you're rested. You've given me hope... As and when you or Leica are able to give an idea of when the firmware will be released, it will also be helpful - but I also know the adage about it being better to under-promise and over deliver...

Very best

[guy_mancuso]

They seem to have solved it to some degree because it has not shown up lately. One theory was extremely dry climates and may have been static to a bad transister. If you look on what part of the country this has happened the air was pretty dry. Arizona being one of the worst. But this is just a theory and not anything more. But a definitive answer than i would have to say no. But they are taking care of this much quicker if it happens but one fact remains no one in Europe, mostly good ole US of freaking A . Just my luck. LOL

Must be we have fumes from the fast food houses. ROTFLMAO

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by chris_tribble

Guy - really appreciate your prompt reply - don't know how you manage to earn a living and spend so much time on the forum - but hey, I make a living, and here I am - so I guess it's that we're interested in getting things as good as we can...

Hope you're rested. You've given me hope... As and when you or Leica are able to give an idea of when the firmware will be released, it will also be helpful - but I also know the adage about it being better to under-promise and over deliver...

Very best

Well i woke up at 4 am , my body is screwed up on when it is supposed to sleep . My mind is on another planet. LOL and yes i do need to catch up on work, hate that part. LOL

Firmware i got the response of very soon. let's hope so

[sdai]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

But they are taking care of this much quicker if it happens but one fact remains no one in Europe, mostly good ole US of freaking A . Just my luck. LOL

Thanks a lot, Guy ... so far I've been caught twice but all managed to get it back. I don't care about any other quirks now but this bugs the hell out of me.

[guy_mancuso]

Me too Simon , this one can be deadly obviously it has happened to me, so i do keep a close eye on this and leica is as well. It has been pretty quiet so hopefully this will be a thing of the past. out of all the M8's on the trip no one had any issues with batteries or stuff like that. So that was good but personally i won't let my guard down either. Good thing is leica is on top of it

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by chris_tribble

and knowing that this option is going to be available in a nearish future will rescue me from having to get involved in alternative hardware purchases (1D III...).

Chris, I'm sorry to drag this thread slightly off-topic but I'm curious as to how much more silent a 1D III is in operation than the M8 (the noise of the latter having been a genuine issue for me on at least one occasion). Does the Canon have a quiet mode or is it that you already have a blimp housing for the Canon 1 body?

[Shootist]

I seriously doubt that M8 will ever have a silent mode. It is not a shutter release switch or firmware function. The rewinding of the shutter is tied to the closing of the shutter blades and can not be stopped.

To test this set the camera to 1/2 or 1 second and or B and take the lens off. Hit the shutter button and watch the shutter open, then watch it close. As soon as it closes it rewinds. It is a function of the closing of the shutter blades that triggers the rewinding of it.

The only way to get it to not rewind at the close of the blades is to take out whatever switch/trigger is built into it that actuates the rewinding. This can only be done with a new, replacement shutter that has that feature and a new shutter release switch to actuate that feature.

Not going to happen with the M8. Maybe the M9 but not the M8.

[chris_tribble]

Originally Posted by wattsy

Chris, I'm sorry to drag this thread slightly off-topic but I'm curious as to how much more silent a 1D III is in operation than the M8 (the noise of the latter having been a genuine issue for me on at least one occasion). Does the Canon have a quiet mode or is it that you already have a blimp housing for the Canon 1 body?

Ian - nothing's silent, but Canon get there by damping shutter noise on actuation and separating actuation from re-cocking. There's an interesting comment in the Canon white paper: http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_f...hite_Paper.pdf

"A new and useful silent single shooting mode has been added to the regular complement
of single shooting, high-speed continuous (10 fps), low-speed continuous (3 fps), 10-sec.
self-timer and 2-sec. self-timer. During normal shooting, a magnet is used to release the
tension and the reflex mirror's downward motion is spring-driven. In the silent single
shooting mode, Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) control is employed to lower the effective
voltage. The motor's rpm is lowered and the reflex mirror is slowly put back down. PWM
control is also applied to the shutter-cocking motor to make it silent. The operation noise
of the mirror going back down is approx. 77 dB for normal single shooting. In the silent
single shooting mode, it is much quieter at approx. 70 dB. After shooting in the silent
single shooting mode and SW2-OFF occurs, the shutter will be cocked. You can thereby
control the timing of the operation noise."

I've heard it. It works pretty well. I want "silent mode" - I don't want to have to buy the 1D3!!

Best

[chris_tribble]

Originally Posted by Shootist

Not going to happen with the M8. Maybe the M9 but not the M8.

Ed - really depressed if this is true... I SO want the M8 to be quieter... The shutter noise is fine - it's just the re-cocking that gets through to people. Not a real decibel issue, just the extension and complexity of the noise draws their attention...

I'm still crossing my fingers - hope you're not right!

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by chris_tribble

Ed - really depressed if this is true... I SO want the M8 to be quieter... The shutter noise is fine - it's just the re-cocking that gets through to people. Not a real decibel issue, just the extension and complexity of the noise draws their attention...

I'm still crossing my fingers - hope you're not right!

Chris--when I heard the 1d3 in "silent mode" at WPPI, it was silent for a dSLR, but not as quiet as the M8 by half.

Maybe they hadn't fixed it quite yet, though. Dunno--I was impressed, but again, it's all relative. The DMR is the most quiet I know of with manual wind.

And for people reading this, from 5 or 6 feet away, the difference in sound between an M6 and M8 is negligible--up close to your ear it's like night and day, because the buzz of the shutter seems to go through your bones, or something. LOL!!

All I know is I did this test with my M6 and the difference really wasn't that great from shooting distance, unless we're talking very close up.

As for that well-known PJ, I would have asked him what his M6 sounds like at 1/8000 s ) LOL!!!

[WPalank]

Originally Posted by chris_tribble

I've heard it. It works pretty well. I want "silent mode" - I don't want to have to buy the 1D3!!
Best

Chris,
I have the Mark III and used silent mode a couple of times and probably will not anymore.
1) It's not all that silent.
2) It sounds like about a 1 second exposure and is a bit disconcerting. In other words, If you are shooting at 1/300th of a second after hearing what seems to be a very slow shutter actuation, I find myself constantly checking to make sure I'm shooting at my predetermined shutter speed and then checking and rechecking the image in the LCD.

Now take a 70-200 White lens and attach it to the black brick and you aren't in stealth mode anymore.

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by WPalank

Chris,
I have the Mark III and used silent mode a couple of times and probably will not anymore.
1) It's not all that silent.
2) It sounds like about a 1 second exposure and is a bit disconcerting. In other words, If you are shooting at 1/300th of a second after hearing what seems to be a very slow shutter actuation, I find myself constantly checking to make sure I'm shooting at my predetermined shutter speed and then checking and rechecking the image in the LCD.

Now take a 70-200 White lens and attach it to the black brick and you aren't in stealth mode anymore.

Thanks William--that was exactly my sense as well. It's not all that silent...

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by Shootist

I seriously doubt that M8 will ever have a silent mode. It is not a shutter release switch or firmware function. The rewinding of the shutter is tied to the closing of the shutter blades and can not be stopped.

To test this set the camera to 1/2 or 1 second and or B and take the lens off. Hit the shutter button and watch the shutter open, then watch it close. As soon as it closes it rewinds. It is a function of the closing of the shutter blades that triggers the rewinding of it.

The only way to get it to not rewind at the close of the blades is to take out whatever switch/trigger is built into it that actuates the rewinding. This can only be done with a new, replacement shutter that has that feature and a new shutter release switch to actuate that feature.

Not going to happen with the M8. Maybe the M9 but not the M8.

Ed all i can say is leica seemed to be more positive on being able to do it , whatever that means. Like words like piece of cake. Okay 3 beers later. ROTFLMAO

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Ed all i can say is leica seemed to be more positive on being able to do it , whatever that means. Like words like piece of cake. Okay 3 beers later. ROTFLMAO

Well I'd love to be completely wrong. I'm not a engineer but I do have great basic knowledge of how things like this work and from using the M8 for 5 months my above statement is what I see.

I guess the only way to really test this is to take the shutter completely out of the M8 and then fire it by jumping/shorting across the contacts that actually fire the shutter. If it opens and closes and then rewinds all by itself we have the answer. If it opens and closes and does not rewind then the rewind might be controlled by software or simply the rewind circuit isn't powered by the firing circuit.

No I'm not taking mine apart.

To Jamie
I totally agree that at a short distance away from the M8 the rewinding noise, and or the total shutter noise isn't that noticeable. I have done tests with the M8 against a M3 with both of them backed up against a wall and me about 5 feet away and although the M8 is slightly louder it isn't that much more compared to a M3. I could even hear the rewind mode but I did hear the shutter open and close. I guess it is the difference between cloth and steel.

[guy_mancuso]

I know Ed it does sound tougher than a piece of cake to me. let's see if it ever comes true.

[brucek]

Were I the designer I would have made the rewind action controlled by firmware. Sense the closing of the shutter and then fire off the solenoid to cock the shutter. I would not do it mechanically. If Leica did it the way I suggest then it would indeed be a piece of cake to fix.

Bruce