Why Apple Won't Support Leica M8 or Epson R-D1

[bernd_muc]

Originally Posted by Joe Mondello

I attended an Aperture workshop last week in Florida and Ed Kelly, an Apple rep, told me point blank when I asked when Aperture would support my digital rangefinder cameras (Leica M8 and Epson R-D1), "We won't, the market's too small."

On a side note, there already seems to be some sort of M8 support (for the Digital Images program?): In the /Library/ColorSync/Profiles folder, there is a "Leica M8 generic.icm" file (seemingly provided by PhaseOne). So the M8 does not seem to be totally out of Apple's view.

I guess he forgot he works for the company that makes a mere 5% of the world's personal computers!

Yes, you'd think that the Apple of cameras would work better with the Leica of computers

Bernd

[tashley]

Originally Posted by bernd_muc

In the /Library/ColorSync/Profiles folder, there is a "Leica M8 generic.icm" file (seemingly provided by PhaseOne). So the M8 does not seem to be totally out of Apple's view.



Bernd

Bernd, I think that got there when you installed Capture 1...

Tim

[bernd_muc]

Originally Posted by tashley

Bernd, I think that got there when you installed Capture 1...

...or one of the other RAW development program trial versions (I can't remember if I tried out C1 as well, though). You are right, that's a possibility.

Bernd

[Joe Mondello]

Originally Posted by bernd_muc

Yes, you'd think that the Apple of cameras would work better with the Leica of computers

Bernd

I like that!

[ceflynn]

Once Apple provides support for the cameras, users can contribute to refining the support at:

Apple furthers raw development with call for images - Aperture Users Professional Network

[wstotler]

Originally Posted by wlaidlaw

Brand loyalty which takes years to win can be lost in days - we all know this, so why doesn't Mr. Jobs?

They do know. Sure feels like I watched the "goodwill drawer" start to close coinciding roughly with the opening of the Apple Stores, a shift to a retail market emphasis, and a larger exposure of Apple to the general public (as opposed to diehards). Good for Apple. Bad for the diehards. Potentially bad for Computing the Apple Way in the long term. And, BTW, I've been using Apples since the IIe. Today, Apple's UI and OS have better workflow characteristics than MS's software so it's still a win. They're great development platforms.

But, back on track, I have no faith that Apple will have M8 support in Aperture--I *hope* they do. It feels like the M8 user base is too small--even if vocal. There's what--1,000 Rebels in use for every M8? And with limited Aperture programming resources. . . .

Regardless of my opinions, what I haven't seen is an expert in this thread hop in with an estimate of many hours it would take a coder to actually provide M8 support (and testing) in Aperture. I'd really love to hear an estimate to get a grip on how big the issue is. If it's 300 hours, well, I can see it being missed. If it's 40 or 20 hours--or less!--then maybe there's no excuse based on getting the Leica name associated with Aperture? And, hey, I own an M8 so of course I want support.

[ceflynn]

The Apple Stores do have their advantages.

I saw one very frustrated professional photographer with a high-end (supported) Nikon camera walk into an Apple Store and ask to plug his camera into a desktop model connected to a 30 inch Cinema Display. I wish I knew what had been plaguing him with his other computer and software, but when he saw his impressive photographs imported into Aperture, his face lit up with joy. He asked a few brief questions, and then said, "I'll take it." The sales person said, "So, you'd like to buy Aperture?" The photographer took out his check book and said, "I need the whole thing."

[ceflynn]

I have not been able to find out just where the data needed to support a camera comes from. Some people have told me this is a problem with Adobe, because they invented the DNG format, and others have said the problem is limited resources at Apple. Not one person vigorously defended his take on the question, which we might rephrase as "Can we buy our way out of this problem? Where do we throw the money?" The one person most in a position to know said the problem is that Apple just has a really long development cycle in general. I hope patience will pay off.

It is widely rumored that Aperture exists because Steve Jobs is a good amateur photographer and did not enjoy using Adobe's software. Perhaps if it could be arranged to have Steve spend some quality time with an M8, support would arrive faster.

[wag]

I've been a Mac guy for years. I bought Aperture before the M8. I was disapointed that the
M8 wasn't supported, but life is short and Lightroom is great. So Apple will support it whenever.
Apple was supposed to have their new OS this Spring, but now it's this fall.
Just shoot and get lightroom.
Brad Wagstaff

[timswan]

Apple doesn't discuss their plans, so everything here is rumor, hearsay, and FUD. It appears as though the support for the M8 DNG/Raw format is a system-level change (you'll notice that RAW conversion is almost always added as a sytem update, and not as an application update.) I believe this is because of Aperture's dependence on it's Quartz display rendering and color-management, though I could be wrong.

Seeing as how Leica's just now (sort-of) getting its s&$! together with IR issues it's not surprising that Apple hasn't released support for the M8. I'd pretty shocked, however, if it didn't come eventually. This is, after all, one of Apple's professional applications and if they can't keep the Pro's happy they may as well pack it in.

[wlaidlaw]

Update 10.4.10, which has been ceded to beta testers, apparently contains updates on both RAW and DNG. Whether it will help us on the M8, DNG display in Finder or Aperture is anyone's guess. Fingers crossed.

Wilson

[DaveEP]

Originally Posted by timswan

ASeeing as how Leica's just now (sort-of) getting its s&$! together with IR issues it's not surprising that Apple hasn't released support for the M8. I'd pretty shocked, however, if it didn't come eventually. This is, after all, one of Apple's professional applications and if they can't keep the Pro's happy they may as well pack it in.

You are of course assuming that they agree that the Leica M8 etc is Pro gear. They may or may not. However, Aperture is just as likely (or even more likely) to support consumer Canon & Nikon cameras simply because the market is even larger. If only 1% of Canon 400D/XTi users buy Aperture, it's still probably a bigger market than if 20% of M8 users bought it. All guesses on my part.... I don't have actual figures

[timswan]

Originally Posted by DaveEP

You are of course assuming that they agree that the Leica M8 etc is Pro gear. They may or may not. However, Aperture is just as likely (or even more likely) to support consumer Canon & Nikon cameras simply because the market is even larger. If only 1% of Canon 400D/XTi users buy Aperture, it's still probably a bigger market than if 20% of M8 users bought it. All guesses on my part.... I don't have actual figures

Yes, but they already support the Nikon and Canon cameras, neither of which, btw, use dng. I'd argue that "professional" is a marketing term, and that not supporting the M8 would just look bad for them. Apple does care about perception.

[roccoriley]

Perhaps this appears elsewhere but I just read on the Apple site that Tiger 10.4.10 does support D8 files now.

[ceflynn]

True, and the D-Lux 3 is also supported by Mac OS X 10.4.10.

[cwf]

I have been using Aperture (1.5.3) with M8 RAW images for several weeks, first with the trial version and then the regular version. No drama with getting it to work. I did have to upgrade OS X to 10.4.10 first.

[robertwright]

...so where are all the apple-naysayers now that aperture has M8 support? plus the rumours that were floated about how the M8 market was so small it would never be supported...? and those that had no faith in apple that they would do it? and how apple was abandoning its professional users....?

huh?

[wlaidlaw]

Originally Posted by robertwright

...so where are all the apple-naysayers now that aperture has M8 support? plus the rumours that were floated about how the M8 market was so small it would never be supported...? and those that had no faith in apple that they would do it? and how apple was abandoning its professional users....?

huh?

Robert,

Well it has firmware 1.06 M8 support - not exactly rocket science. I, like a few others, have hacked into the plist and inserted Eoin's (our resident Mac Guru) improved colour matrix but I still don't think it is as good as C1. I think the other thing that irritates people is the secrecy thing. I cannot for the life of me see what was to be lost by telling people back in say January. "Sorry about 10.4.9 and DNG's guys but it is work in progress and we will be releasing DNG support just as soon as we finish writing the code, which we are working on feverishly right now - please bear with us." A lot of the grousing arose from uninformed or plain incorrect comments from Apple people on DNG support. I was told by one Apple/Aperture person at Focus on Imaging, that they were not currently working on DNG support.

Wilson

[nemeng]

For an exact list of what RAW DNG's the OSX 10.4.10 update supports, see the following link on the Apple website:

About the Mac OS X 10.4.10 Update (delta)

[andybarton]

Originally Posted by robertwright

...so where are all the apple-naysayers now that aperture has M8 support? plus the rumours that were floated about how the M8 market was so small it would never be supported...? and those that had no faith in apple that they would do it? and how apple was abandoning its professional users....?

huh?

Right here.

DMR support, anyone?