Base plate failure,

[billh]

Something to watch for with these cameras. I was checking the focus of my 50 f1.4ASPH, and had the camera tilted forward and it suddenly came off the tripod. I thought I had forgotten to close the clamp on the tripod head, but when I looked at the camera I could see what happened. I don’t know if this was just metal fatigue with my particular camera (which has never been dropped or abused), or an inherent design weakness.



Other pictures are here:

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/PhotoAlbum228.html

Bill

[jonoslack]

Ouch
that looks horrible, it had never occurred to me, even as a possibility.
I will be very careful!
Truth be told, the only thing i really miss with the M8 is the way the base plate fitted, with that lovely curved piece of metal

[James Mitchell]

I wonder how much the Luigi case with tripod screw would help to prevent this from happening.

[george]

Oh, Bill . . .
sorry about your incident. They should replace this instantly - and I am confident that they will.

As to your question, in over fifty years of Leica use I never saw anything like this. The baseplate solution of the older models with the semi-round pin looked stronger. But that is the other side anyway.

The failed metal looks brittle as hell. Wonder what may have caused this. And white metal? What is it?

Hope you get a resolution fast!

[marknorton]

Wow, that's a failure of the magnesium alloy casting and because it's the front half, it's a huge job to replace.

Gulp. The sensor is attached to this casting and shims are used to set the correct alignment with the lens mount, so it's not just a case of unscrewing everything and attaching to a new casting, it has to go through a full sensor mechanical alignment.

My guess is they will give you a new camera...

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by george

The failed metal looks brittle as hell. Wonder what may have caused this. And white metal? What is it?

Some sort of magnesium alloy - a cheap and common material for the chassis of cameras, laptops, etc.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by wattsy

a cheap and common material for the chassis of cameras, etc.

An example of the LHSA Plastic Edition, apparently.

[Shootist]

After close examination of my baseplate locking side I see where there is a cracked off section that someone has tried to repair. See the images.
I'm going to be sending my M8 in to NJ shortly for the brass colored spots that seem to be under the cover glass so I will also send these images in with it and a very stern letter about the spots and this repair done on a $5000 camera that is supposed to be NEW.

To the OP can I make a copy of your image to send in with my camera?

[fotografr]

I wonder if this weakness is caused by putting the tripod socket in the middle of the baseplate. When it was on the end, it was close to the point where the pin fits into the opening. That area is fairly secure. After seeing Bill's photos, I grasped the base plate on my M8 with my thumb and forefinger and exerted pressure front to back. There was enough play in the metal to cause me to wonder if using a tripod might not be a bad idea with this camera.

[Eoin]

Sorry to see your plight Bill. Just a thought, if you place the QR plate with the base plate onto the RRS clamp and close the leaver is there any distortion on the M8 base plate?.

Looks like a weak spot and as mark says very expensive to repair once out of warranty.

[gravastar]

That certainly makes me wonder about the wisdom of tripod mounting the camera with a heavy lens such as the 135/2.8 with goggles or bellows - best to use the tripod mount on the lens. It looks as if any long lens could exert a large turning moment on the base plate attachment point. A weakness would appear to be that the attachment is at the unsupported end of the casting - it's not joined to the other half of the casting.

Bob.

[billh]

Originally Posted by Shootist

After close examination of my baseplate locking side I see where there is a cracked off section that someone has tried to repair. See the images.
I'm going to be sending my M8 in to NJ shortly for the brass colored spots that seem to be under the cover glass so I will also send these images in with it and a very stern letter about the spots and this repair done on a $5000 camera that is supposed to be NEW.

To the OP can I make a copy of your image to send in with my camera?

Ed, of course you can. A link to them is:

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/PhotoAlbum228.html

Your photos are illuminating too - that does not look very good....

The odd thing is, if the bloody camera was focusing accurately, it never would have been on a tripod for the lens focus test.

[billh]

Originally Posted by Eoin

Just a thought, if you place the QR plate with the base plate onto the RRS clamp and close the leaver is there any distortion on the M8 base plate?.

Looks like a weak spot and as mark says very expensive to repair once out of warranty.

Eion,

I can't because it still has the piece of broken metal, and I want to sent it to Leica so they can see exactly how it failed.

[Enoteca]

Originally Posted by george

Oh, Bill . . .
sorry about your incident. They should replace this instantly - and I am confident that they will.

As to your question, in over fifty years of Leica use I never saw anything like this. The baseplate solution of the older models with the semi-round pin looked stronger. But that is the other side anyway.

The failed metal looks brittle as hell. Wonder what may have caused this. And white metal? What is it?

Hope you get a resolution fast!

Magnesium

[billh]

Originally Posted by Enoteca

Magnesium

I just looked at my M7 and M4s, and they do not have this split I see in Ed’s photo - also, they appear to be a different metal. Do you know what they used in the previous Ms, and why they changed the design (and perhaps the choice of metal) in the M8?

[rwfreund]

Outch,
small cast lip cantelievered off of a thin casting at a right angle is just the thing to cause a stress concentration.
The wear strip/reinforcement should help a little as long as those screws are snug, but this design seems hazerdous for a metal as non-ductile as (I assume) pressure cast magnesium.
-bob

[Shootist]

With all the film M's the locking lug on the body was screwed into the main center section of the camera. Completely different then the M8.
I have a feeling yours will not be the only M8 that has this problem.

Oh and all I have to look at is a M3 but that model has a full cast shell, one piece, where as the M8 is 2 halfs screwed together.

[Joe Mondello]

Wow, this is the second base plate failure I've read about.

Can't find the link now but the failure was at the other end of the plate where the tab is, The base plate failed at that spot where the metal is thinnest.

I guess we'd all best mind how we handle the "auf<>zu" from now on!

nice macros BTW!

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by rwfreund

Outch,
small cast lip cantelievered off of a thin casting at a right angle is just the thing to cause a stress concentration.

Indeed, and it's the adjustment of the baseplate latch which will determine how much pressure is applied to the casting when the baseplate is on; you want it to be tight enough to hold the baseplate securely but not so tight as to put undue stress on the casting.

Put the camera on a tripod though and forces on the tripod mount (for example, inadvertently letting the camera carry the weight of the tripod) will put extra stress on the bracket.

Which gets me thinking about holding the camera by just the the grip with a heavy lens attached... casting fractures and camera and lens fall to earth...

[ken_tanaka]

Thank you for posting that warning, Bill. This is a particularly disturbing failure since that base plate has the same functional design mission as a tit on a bull.