Leica stubborness will hurt sales

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by jaapv

This whole thing should be seen in perspective. I agree with Mark, there is no reason for Leica to accomodate competitors, rather the opposite. That leaves a problem with older, uncodable Leica/Leitz lenses. From 50 mm upwards there are no benifits from coding to be reaped, at least in pictorial quality, and at 35 mm the difference, if any, is so marginal that it can be seen as irrelevant. Which leaves - I should have to look it up, but I would guess two 21mm lenses and one 28. Few enough imo....So what is all the excitement about?

Hi Jaap,

Have you forgotten that Leica made thousands of screw mount lenses?

Cheers,

Sean

[tummydoc]

To me the issue of whether Leica IR filters must be used is at least 90% moot. Even if the firmware doesn't do a perfect job with Heliopan filters (my personal choice because they are less flare-causing in my trials and errors, and also more resistant to scratching), or even 486 filters (a lot less expensive than Leica's) in all cases, the fact that coding identifies the lens in EXIF allows me to easily sort files by lens and run each batch through a PS action with Panotools that corrects any residual cyan (or red from over-correction). It's not as if anyone, especially pros, can get away without doing any post-processing. As long as it can be automated, I don't see a major problem.

Where I do have a gripe is in regards to using older, valuable lenses such as the 35 Summilux-ASPHERICAL (not the ASPH), 8-element 35mm Summicron, 2nd-generation 28mm Elmarit, 21mm Super-Angulon, and of course the Hologon. I would not think of having the rear bayonets of those lenses mutilated in the interest of coding. Those are not 3rd-party lenses, they are Leitz lenses, and legendary ones at that. To me it's a sad shame Leica doesn't honour it's own optical legacy with menu-driven cyan correction .

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Now not saying folks should do that but i am saying if you have a Zeiss or CV find a mill shop fast, be done with the hassle and get out and shoot . Leica will not bother private folks from engaging in coding there lenses at a mill shop.

Hi Guy,

Man, I just love the energy in your posts sometimes! What I quoted from you above is great advice for sure so long as people have a way to get it done. Almost every lens I have sitting here in this office right now, be it a Leica or a CV, is coded. Screw mount lenses have a real advantage here because they can use the milled adapters so that one doesn't need to worry about taking off the bayonet, worrying about the register, etc. To be sure, milled adapters are wonderful (plug 'n play once they're painted) and the next best thing to the factory coded lenses. They are much more durable than Sharpie marks and less hassle than using a menu system would be.

But...the menu system would still be very useful for owners of many Leica and non-Leica lenses and its a feature I want to see Leica adopt. I think, for example, of a subscriber who wrote to me recently. He lives in South America and owns a bunch of Leica lenses that he uses daily. Getting them coded and having them unavailable is a big hassle for him. A menu option would make his life much easier.

And...a reminder to anyone who uses or wants to use screw mount lenses from Leica, CV, Canon, etc....keep searching for those old 9 cm and 13.5 cm Leitz adapters and stockpile as many as you can afford to. Either you'll end up using them all or you can sell some to another photographer who needs some. They doubled in price on E-Bay once their use on the M8 was discussed in my article but there must be lots of them in the forgotten boxes of old camera stores, etc. I've got seven so far and keep my eyes open for them.

Cheers,

Sean

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

Hi Jaap,

Have you forgotten that Leica made thousands of screw mount lenses?

Cheers,

Sean

No I have not Sean - very few 21 and 28 lenses in LTM mount though. And I might quote your previous post about codable screw-mount adapters back at you . I'm a great fan of self-coding, as you know I am a Zeica Elmagon 21/2.8 owner. No need to hassle Leica with menu option wishes.

[guy_mancuso]

I agree the first choice is get them coded and if all else fails than the menu option takes over no question there. Like you I am in for immediate fix on this becuase we need to work and yes i even sold a Zeiss 21mm because of this while back. most folks don't have this immediate need but also how long do we want to wait. Leica has pretty much fixed everything , yes maybe a few linkering bugs but now is the time if there going to do this than it can be worked on.

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by jaapv

No I have not - very few 21 and 28 lenses in LTM mount though. And I might quote your previous post about codable screw-mount adapters back at you . I'm a great fan of self-coding, as you know I am a Zeica Elmagon 21/2.8 owner. No need to hassle Leica with menu option wishes.

Hi Jaap,

There are also old 35s and some people like having the EXIF data and potential vignetting correction for the longer lenses.

Cheers,

Sean

[sdai]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

Those are not 3rd-party lenses, they are Leitz lenses, and legendary ones at that. To me it's a sad shame Leica doesn't honour it's own optical legacy with menu-driven cyan correction .

Now that's what I call "pain in the stomach", tummydoc. LOL

[sdai]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

... and potential vignetting correction for the longer lenses.

Add the 90 Thambar for that one, Sean.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

Hi Jaap,

There are also old 35s and some people like having the EXIF data and potential vignetting correction for the longer lenses.

Cheers,

Sean

Well, Sean, lets give Leica a chance to get their current stable of lenses in order.

Cheers too

Jaap

[Bill Sievers]

People who charge 5000 for their camera should listen to the requests of their paying customers. The customer is always right. Simple but true. If it is a huge technical hurdle to put in menu driven lense selection, fine. But I don'tbelieve it is. I have seen many express a desire to see this modification. So what is the big deal?

Moreover, they should know that most people who buy alternate lenses wind up buying Leica lenses sooner or later.

[sean_reid]

It's not to hard to do and Stefan Daniel has already said that it is possible in a public FAQ document. It certainly can be done if they choose to do it and the beauty of it will be that people who don't like are quite free to ignore that line on the menu list.

Cheers,

Sean

[Riley]

Originally Posted by Bill Sievers

People who charge 5000 for their camera should listen to the requests of their paying customers. The customer is always right. Simple but true. If it is a huge technical hurdle to put in menu driven lense selection, fine. But I don'tbelieve it is. I have seen many express a desire to see this modification. So what is the big deal?

Moreover, they should know that most people who buy alternate lenses wind up buying Leica lenses sooner or later.

just how many lenses can fit to an M8, there must be hundreds, where does it end?
these lenses go back 50 years, some makers arnt around anymore
if for instance the customer wanted to use a Canon 50/1.2 with an adapter,
what about the Russian lenses, code them too ?


im sorry Bill, but the customer isnt always right
the customer wanted FF
the customer wanted the IRcut on the sensor, some still do

well the customer would have got an average camera with average results
but yes, then the customer would have been right

[sean_reid]

Hi Rob,

It begins and ends with the corrections "library" so to speak, that is also used for the coded Leica lenses. Anyone who owns lenses other than that will have the opportunity to try and see if a certain modern Leica lens recipe also works well with his or her older or alternate lens. The number of lenses that Leica must create corrections for would be entirely unchanged with this option.

BTW, in my testing so far, the following lenses work well with *486* filters and fw 1.102:

CV 25/4, CV 28/3.5, CV 35/2.5, CV 35/1.7

Cheers,

Sean

[LJL]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

Great post by the way. You're thinking on this issue is quite similar to my own, in many respects.

Cheers,

Sean

Thanks, Sean. I have been trying not to think about this too much, but after reading all the posts here, there seem to be some realistic and helpful options for Leica that would work for a lot of folks.

LJ

[LJL]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

Have to agree it killed my eyes reading it though. ROTFLMAO
back to the freaking taxes

Too many words...too little time to read them, eh?

Not to worry....I will work on more economic communications for you, Guy.

LJ

[LJL]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

Hi Rob,

It begins and ends with the corrections "library" so to speak, that is also used for the coded Leica lenses. Anyone who owns lenses other than that will have the opportunity to try and see if a certain modern Leica lens recipe also works well with his or her older or alternate lens. The number of lenses that Leica must create corrections for would be entirely unchanged with this option.

BTW, in my testing so far, the following lenses work well with *486* filters and fw 1.102:

CV 25/4, CV 28/3.5, CV 35/2.5, CV 35/1.7

Cheers,

Sean

Sean,
I would add the CV 35/1.2 Nokton to that list, but I know you are not as fond of this lens as I am

LJ

P.S. Just got the 24/35 mount from Zeiss and installed it on the ZM25/2.8. Nice to see the correct frame lines. I am working on trying to code it as a Leica 24/2.8 now. I think this will work also. I am using a Leica 46mm UV/IR on it, and love the look so far.

P.P.S. Quick update: just tested the ZM25/2.8 with my coding job.....IT WORKS....and beautifully at that. I still need to test the cyan correction, but at least the lens is being seen as a Leica 24/2.8 now, and using the in-camera corrections. Very nice.

[guy_mancuso]

I was actually thinking about getting this lens for when i need a very wide with a extra stop of speed from the WATE

[robsteve]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

I would not think of having the rear bayonets of those lenses mutilated in the interest of coding. Those are not 3rd-party lenses, they are Leitz lenses, and legendary ones at that. To me it's a sad shame Leica doesn't honour it's own optical legacy with menu-driven cyan correction .

It is not clear whether Leica replaces the mount or just machines the existing mount. In the original literature, they said they were replacing the mounts.

If they are replacing the mounts, you can ask to save the existing mount, which can always be put back on if it affects resale value.

[sisoje]

Originally Posted by sean_reid

And...a reminder to anyone who uses or wants to use screw mount lenses from Leica, CV, Canon, etc....keep searching for those old 9 cm and 13.5 cm Leitz adapters and stockpile as many as you can afford to. Either you'll end up using them all or you can sell some to another photographer who needs some. They doubled in price on E-Bay once their use on the M8 was discussed in my article but there must be lots of them in the forgotten boxes of old camera stores, etc. I've got seven so far and keep my eyes open for them.

Cheers,

Sean

Just a note: I have an extra 9cm old Leitz adapter, but need a 13.5cm. Anybody wants a trade? Send me a email...

[LJL]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

I was actually thinking about getting this lens for when i need a very wide with a extra stop of speed from the WATE

Guy,
I just stepped outside to take a quick test shot with the ZM 25/2.8, coded as a Lecia 24/2.8, and using a Leica 46mm UV/IR filter. (Have not tested the B+W 486 yet.) Trying to get other stuff done right now, but my very fist impression is that it is very, very clean to the corners. No cyan cast that I can see at all. (I made sure I had some white clouds in the corners of the frame.) This is what I was hoping for when I bought the Zeiss well before the filter/cyan issue became an issue. Very sharp, clean looking images from this, as Sean has shown in his testing. A bit more contrasty than the Leica, but tack sharp in the corners that the Leica almost gets, but not quite. When I shoot this with a filter but NOT coded, the cyan is more than I will tolerate. This is a case where the filter AND coding again makes an outstanding lense very usable for color work now with the recommended filters. Could not use this as comfortably before, but it now may become my favorite lens for approximately 32-33mm equivalent angle of view. I like this.

LJ