M8 Focusing Issues

[nscali]

Someone please help. I am having constant focusing issues - or inability to accuratley focus in the viewfinder. Everytime I think I have focused sharply in the viewfinder, the image ends up being soft.
I have to focus a little closer to make the subject sharper (only slightly) on the file.
In other words, out of focus slightly in viewfinder = in focus (at least sharper) on the file.
Here's the thing. I am able to constantly recreate this problem with various lenses
(28 elmarit, 35 summicron, 50 noctilux) as well as using 3 different M8's!
All 3 lenses each time on 3 different bodies ALL creating the same issue.
Obviously the bigger the lens, the more noticable the issue.
Am I going completely crazy? It can't possibly be the lenses or bodies. It is a consistent characteristic. Am I doing something wrong with my focusing? I am new to rangefinder's but love them to bits. Is there a focusing method - or a degree of accptable forgiveness?
I beielve my eyes are OK. Never had a problem before.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nicky Scali

[Shootist]

If the problem is always with the same set of lenses on 3 different bodies then I suspect it is a lens issue. If you can borrow a lens and check to see if it focuses correctly.
If it does then send your lenses in to be adjusted.


Also it could be that you need a diopter correction lens on the viewfinder.

[stunsworth]

Hi Nicki, if three different lenses have exactly the same problem on three different bodies I'd tend to think that it's user error. I can't imagin all the lenses and/or all the bodies having exactly the same problem to an identical degree.

Does this happen at all apertures or just wide open? Do you wear glasses for reading or normal vision? What shutter speeds are you using?

[nscali]

Steve,
I tend to agree that it must be me. Impossible to think it could happen on 3 different bodies.
The problem seems to be more apparent wide open f4 - f2.
When I say problem, the image (or at least what I beleive to be the point of focus) is just softer. When you adjust the focus distance a few cm closer (and becomes out of focus slightly in the viewfinder) you wind up with a slightly sharper image file.
Obviously it is more noticable with the 50mm Noctilux.
All my 'tests' have been done trying to focus on subjects about 1.5-2m away, using a tripod and a shutter speed of 1/15 - 1/30.
Thanks,
Nicky
By the way , I don't use glasses

[xrogers]

Either you have three similarly bad lenses, three similarly bad bodies, or your technique is off in some way.

Put your longest focal length lens on the camera, choose something no more than six feet from you, and focus on it. See how much you can turn the focus ring and still have the item appear acceptably in focus (not perfectly---just where focus seems equally good). If you can adjust the focus ring more than several degrees and the rangefinder patch looks pretty much the same to you, then try a diopter.

Another way to think about this is if you're using a 90 (or other long-throw focus ring lens), you might turn the focus ring about a millimeter either direction, and have the RF patch look right (a little less than a millimeter for shorter focal length lenses). More than a millimeter each way, and you should try a diopter.

My eyes are good enough that I don't need glasses, but I use a -1 diopter on my M8. Without the diopter, I can't consistently focus a 90mm. With the diopter, my results are excellent.

A possible cheater's method for testing diopters (I didn't have to do this, but came close...) is to go to Walgreens and try out those cheapie reading glasses while focusing your M8. When you have one that works (I found it pretty obvious when one diopter was better than another), jot down the diopter, and order one with that correction from B&H. As long as the cheap glasses are marked correctly, you should get the right diopter.

--clyde

[Laki]

Originally Posted by nscali

Steve,
I tend to agree that it must be me. Impossible to think it could happen on 3 different bodies.
The problem seems to be more apparent wide open f4 - f2.
When I say problem, the image (or at least what I beleive to be the point of focus) is just softer. When you adjust the focus distance a few cm closer (and becomes out of focus slightly in the viewfinder) you wind up with a slightly sharper image file.
Obviously it is more noticable with the 50mm Noctilux.
All my 'tests' have been done trying to focus on subjects about 1.5-2m away, using a tripod and a shutter speed of 1/15 - 1/30.
Thanks,
Nicky
By the way , I don't use glasses

the times you used are quite long, how did you release the shutter? could it be also that you moved the camera a bit while pressing it? did you try to use a release cord?

i would retry with shorter times.

cheers
laki

[jaapv]

Do you focus-recompose? That might explain it as well.

[thpeters]

From Laki,
the times you used are quite long, how did you release the shutter? could it be also that you moved the camera a bit while pressing it? did you try to use a release cord?

Hi,

I have the M8 since feb 20, have try out the Voighlander 15 mm, the Summicron 35 mm and the Noctilux now, dont get it focus it all.

Did many test with the noctilux, send several members files examples and thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate that a lot.
Yesterday M8 on tripod and release cord, 2.5 meter distance, Shutter time 1/160 Fstop 16, Iso 160 not focus at all, cleary back focus, with a f16 the dept of field should be between 1.75 and 3.5 meters, noway in this picture. My wife took this picture and she has very sharp eyes...and focus it on my eyes.

Is it fair to ask an replacement of the camera? I got a DEFECTIVE camera out the BOX?

[stunsworth]

Before sending anything back make sure it's not user error. Find something with a high contrast edge such as a photograph in a book, or text on a white background. That will allow you to be absolutely sure that the two images in the viewfinder are fully overlaping.

[Gid]

Just for the record, my second M8 had focus issues as well as RF alignment issues. If I hadn't had the first and seen how sharp the images could be, I probably wouldn't have noticed. Infinity focus was also a bit off. My guess is that it needs adjusting.

[hankg]

My M8's rangefinder was dead on, but all three used lenses I purchased backfocused and needed focus calibration. It's not that unusual even for new lenses, especially fast lenses to be out. No focus problems now.

[Bernd Banken]

now it's time to put this thread out of the box again...

Several weeks ago there was a lot of discussion about front/backfocus.
In the links benead you'll find a test chart which is very helpful to check your equipement:

http://www.focustestchart.com/chart.html

Bernd

[B&W]

Mine went to Solms a week ago for back focus adjustment

It's no fun using a out of focus camera – not even a M8

[etienne_werner]

Originally Posted by thpeters

Hi,

I have the M8 since feb 20, have try out the Voighlander 15 mm, the Summicron 35 mm and the Noctilux now, dont get it focus it all.

Did many test with the noctilux, send several members files examples and thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate that a lot.
Yesterday M8 on tripod and release cord, 2.5 meter distance, Shutter time 1/160 Fstop 16, Iso 160 not focus at all, cleary back focus, with a f16 the dept of field should be between 1.75 and 3.5 meters, noway in this picture. My wife took this picture and she has very sharp eyes...and focus it on my eyes.

Is it fair to ask an replacement of the camera? I got a DEFECTIVE camera out the BOX?

Hi,
I wonder how you could possibly get the 15mm out of focus? It isn't coupled but has an extraordinary depth of field So any unsharpness could only be attributed to user error OR that your CCD is totaly out of whack.

That said, I too have lenses which just don't seem to focus right. My 50 1.5 nokton is one of these.
Wishing you all the best,

Etienne

[thpeters]

Thanks Guys for all the information what I get from you regarding my M8.

But having say that, the Leica rep and the sales rep (after seeing a lot of files) that they AGREE the camera has a problem.

The Leica rep, has to contact Solms first what to do about it? for me is it simple, just replace it, it was a problem from the day one I bought it.

Anyways I keep smiling and hope to show soon some good picture in the photo forum.

All of you, have a happy shooting.

Theo

[Laki]

i hope you will get it back soon theo

[nscali]

I probably need to clarify a few things relating to the original post.
I am now on my 3rd body (all others replaced) - over a 2 month period.
These bodies came fom different shipments.
All 3 lenses were bought at different times, from different places.
I have tested all 3 lenses on all 3 bodies. The results from body to body are virtually identical. My process (as crude as it is) is as follows:
Shoot a subject about 1-2m away. Try to focus on a particular point. Sometimes I did black text on white.
Re-compose and reshoot the same subject, this time throwing the subject slightly out of focus (nearer) a few degrees, if that, so that the image in the viewfinder is not quite overlapping anymore - in other words it is now 'blurry' (always nearer).
The end result is that the SECOND shot is sharper than the first. I would expect it to be the other way around. If you didn't do this test you probably would not notice it other than the first shot would appear to be a bit "soft". Where I really noticed the difference was on the 50mm Noctilux lens.

Disclaimer:
Important to note that all of these tests were done with the lens fairly wide open F2-f5.8
and a shutter speed between 1/15 - 1/60 (depending). Obviously I used the same parameters when I did the comparison shots.

The other thing I noticed was that the focus alignment alters slightly if you look through the viewfinder at different angles.

Any help would be appreciated. I am starting to beleive that it is simply a characteristic of the rangefinder system.

[jaapv]

As soon as you recompose you introduce an error. The focussing distance changes as you tilt the camera. The only way to test focus is to use a flat object parallel to the sensor plane at a known distance.