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M8 shutter just failed


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When turned on my M8 now beeps and shows the following on the LCD .... " drive blocked " and then " shutter fault ". Especially galling - as this happened the day before I was about to trade the camera in on another purchase ........

 

I purchased it in mid 2007 and it has not had a lot of shutter activations - I would guess certainly less than 15000 - but of course I can't find out now as the camera is doing nothing but complain about its shutter ....... Serial Number is 332XXXX.

 

This camera has already been back to Solms for rangefinder adjustment under warranty as is was not good enough straight out of the box. It came back perfectly adjusted.

 

So it is out of warranty but on its way to Solms with a request for evaluation and advice about what my options are. Not sure if I should have confidence if the same type of shutter is used as a replacement .............. but don't know the current costs regarding the newer shutter, or if the problem with these older shutters has been eliminated. Guess I'll just need to be patient and see what Leica says.

 

I know this has happened to others - but if anyone has been down this path before and would be willing to offer any advice that might help - I would appreciate it.

 

Many Thanks.

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I can't make a recommendation about the shutter. Remember, it's the same one as used in the R8 and R9, so it had a lot of experience before its usage in the M8. If you need the 1/8000 top speed or the 1/250 flash sync, there's no reason to change. If you like the reduced vibration and quieter function of the newer shutter, there's the reason to upgrade.

 

Remember, the price you're quoted will be for bringing the whole camera up to date and giving it a one-year warranty. IOW, if there's a new design for the cocking mechanism, you'll be getting the new version.

 

The fact that Leica still repairs/replaces the original M8 shutter indicates that they still have confidence in it. They don't force you to change to the slower shutter of the M8.2 and probably won't even mention that possibility on the estimate, though it's always an option.

 

And there are more M8's out there with working shutters than without. ;)

 

As for how many shots it has taken, just check the EXIF of the last frame you shot. :)

Edited by ho_co
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FWIW I used to have a Canon 1DS which I sold on to a friend over a year ago. It has still shot under 30k frames but the shutter has just failed on it. OTOH I have heard of 10x this number of frames being shot on the same model without problem. It seems that shutters do fail and some just fail a lot sooner than others.

 

If you don't need the higher shutter speed then the shutter as fitted to the M8-2 is certainly quiter and it feels smoother to me.

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A few weeks ago I got also a shutter failure. Camera had low actuations and Solms repaired it in less than a week. All I can say is that this was my first time sending a camera to Leica Customer Support, and the experience was very good. This excellent customer support is one of the main reasons I will buy an M9.

You can read it here

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/178043-m8-shutter-caput.html

 

Kind regards,

 

Joaquin

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" drive blocked " and then " shutter fault "
If you haven't sent it off for service yet check to see what version of firmware is installed. I was receiving the "shutter fault" message and an awful crunchy sound from one of my M8 bodies.

 

The current M8 2-005 firmware lists the "shutter fault" problems as one of the fixes addressed. I had the previous firmware installed, replaced it with the current version and the problem appears to have gone away.

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I checked the number of shutter actuations using the EXIF data of the last frame taken and after converting from hexidecimal found it to be only 10,304 .

 

I have sent the camera off already - but doubt I could have altered the version of firmware because turning the camera on immediately locked it up to showing the shutter fault message and not allowing any other operation. Pretty sure I had the latest firmware ( I always use the latest available ......... )

 

Still wondering what is best as a replacement shutter - the old type with 1/8000 top speed was certainly louder than the one in my M9. The cost will be a major determining factor I think ................... along with the value I put on the faster shutter - can't say I've noticed 1/4000 to be very limiting on the M9.

 

Just don't know if or why a replacement 1/8000 shutter might not fail after the next 10000 or so activations - like the original did. Has anyone heard of a replacement shutter failing ?

 

Delighted to hear turnaround times can be very quick - fingers crossed ....... Perhaps they might also smooth out the gritty-feeling shutter button as part of the repair ........

 

Thanks for the helpful responses everyone ................

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That seems a reasonable assumption to me, but begs the question of why the R8 and R9 shutter was thought trouble-free enough for use in the M8 to begin with.

 

IOW, what's the difference that would make it less reliable in the M8? Or, were there just so few R8's and R9's sold that we're unaware of their having a troublesome shutter? :confused:

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That seems a reasonable assumption to me, but begs the question of why the R8 and R9 shutter was thought trouble-free enough for use in the M8 to begin with.

 

IOW, what's the difference that would make it less reliable in the M8? Or, were there just so few R8's and R9's sold that we're unaware of their having a troublesome shutter? :confused:

I guess we would have to ask Copal - who also produce the allegedly "troublefree" Canon and Nikon shutters. I have a feeling it is all much of a muchness, with the M8/9 shutter not being protected by a mirror, thus more prone to mechanical trauma.
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Indeed - that is the crucial question for me. Which shutter is the most reliable to have in the M8 ?

 

Thankyou to everyone for their comments, and especially to you Jaapv and bocaburger for what you said - very helpful and something I will think about carefully.

 

Without knowing failure rates as a percentage of those in use, and without knowing if there have been any tweaks to improve their performance - I cannot reasonably evaluate which to choose ...........

 

As Leica have not made available such information I feel like I'm flying blind here.

 

It does seem accepted wisdom that the 1/4000 shutter is quieter and has less vibration ( and it seems that way in my M9 ), but likely to cost more as a replacement. If there are more M9s around now, and they seem to have less failures on a percentage basis, maybe the 1/4000 shutter is more robust .......... but maybe those M9s have not had the same number of actuations on average because the M9 is a newer camera. Perhaps M9 shutter issues will start to show in the next year or two ....... They are not unheard of - in fact there is a newish thread on this matter in the M9 forum on this site.

 

Frankly, either shutter will work OK for me in the M8. I have had no problems with my M9 shutter ( only a problem with the sensor - which Leica fixed under warranty, no complaints ).

 

I'll just have to wait and see the respective costs. Have to say my confidence has been a bit shaken by this failure after only about 10000 actuations. Leica shutter problems were virtually unknown with their M series film cameras - but the digital camera shutters are entirely different.

 

Leica have been good in standing by their product with me over the years - so at the moment I will just have to wait, see what they say and then make what seems at the moment, a tricky decision. If Leica are happy to replace the shutter with the same 1/8000 type for cost of parts only as they have done in some recent cases ..... that might be the way to go. When it was working, I made some fine photographs with that camera/shutter combination.

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I guess we would have to ask Copal - who also produce the allegedly "troublefree" Canon and Nikon shutters. I have a feeling it is all much of a muchness, with the M8/9 shutter not being protected by a mirror, thus more prone to mechanical trauma.

 

Possible. Each camera also has it's own specific housing into which generic shutter components are assembled, and that housing is then fitted and attached into the camera. The shutter release, timing, and re-arming are all controlled by hardware and software external to the shutter assembly. That's quite a few variables, any one of which could potentially influence the durability of the shutter. And if Canon got stuck with a bad batch of, say, 1200 defective shutters for a specific model it would amount to a drop in the bucket since theirs sell in the hundreds of thousands at least. Whereas 1200 defective shutters delivered to Leica for a camera of which they only produced 12,000, creates a different perspective entirely.

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I quite agree. However the M has an added handicap in that it is quite possible to get a piece of gritty stuff in the shutter mechanism, at least easier than with a DSLR which has a mirror and more distance. And that is death for any metal shutter...:(

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Indeed - that is the crucial question for me. Which shutter is the most reliable to have in the M8 ?

 

Thankyou to everyone for their comments, and especially to you Jaapv and bocaburger for what you said - very helpful and something I will think about carefully.

 

Without knowing failure rates as a percentage of those in use, and without knowing if there have been any tweaks to improve their performance - I cannot reasonably evaluate which to choose ...........

 

As Leica have not made available such information I feel like I'm flying blind here.

 

It does seem accepted wisdom that the 1/4000 shutter is quieter and has less vibration ( and it seems that way in my M9 ), but likely to cost more as a replacement. If there are more M9s around now, and they seem to have less failures on a percentage basis, maybe the 1/4000 shutter is more robust .......... but maybe those M9s have not had the same number of actuations on average because the M9 is a newer camera. Perhaps M9 shutter issues will start to show in the next year or two ....... They are not unheard of - in fact there is a newish thread on this matter in the M9 forum on this site.

 

Frankly, either shutter will work OK for me in the M8. I have had no problems with my M9 shutter ( only a problem with the sensor - which Leica fixed under warranty, no complaints ).

 

I'll just have to wait and see the respective costs. Have to say my confidence has been a bit shaken by this failure after only about 10000 actuations. Leica shutter problems were virtually unknown with their M series film cameras - but the digital camera shutters are entirely different.

 

Leica have been good in standing by their product with me over the years - so at the moment I will just have to wait, see what they say and then make what seems at the moment, a tricky decision. If Leica are happy to replace the shutter with the same 1/8000 type for cost of parts only as they have done in some recent cases ..... that might be the way to go. When it was working, I made some fine photographs with that camera/shutter combination.

I had the shutter in my M8 fail recently and had some similar questions and concerns before having it repaired .Here are some answers to those questions I got via email .......

 

Below are a few questions that I have been trying to get answered for the past 3 months . It was never about not wanting to get he camera repaired , just wanted to make the right decision as to which way I should go .... repair the shutter or upgrade and why one over the other .

 

1 ) Is there a direct correlation between shutter failures and a particular setting on the camera ? No, there is no direct correlation between shutter failures or any particular setting on the camera.

 

2) What is likely to cause the shutter to fail and is there something the user can do that is preventive in use that would make this less likely to occur or is it completely random ? No, there is nothing that the user can do to prevent a shutter failure, this happens randomly sometimes.

 

3)Is the shutter upgrade a better shutter and less likely to fail or both shutter are of equal quality and free of defect and just offer different options to the M8 user ? No, the shutter upgrade is not necessarily better, it just offers different options to the user.

 

4) Do you recommended upgrading the shutter for the sole reason that the shutter upgrade is a more robust and refined shutter and less likely to fail ?

No, it would be up to you.

 

5) Is there a warranty on the new shutter, if so how long and what is actually covered under the warranty ? Yes, there is a one (1) year warranty on the billable repairs from Leica Camera.

 

6)What is actually done to the camera while being repaired ? Full CLA ... camera being completely cleaned and checked out ? The work will contain adjustment of rangefinder, focus, light meter and shutter speed.

 

7) Can I have a Black Dot in place of the red one ? .... just kidding ,well not really ; ) No, we do not have any black dots, our logo is the red dot.

 

The cost of the repair $650.00 (original shutter)

Shutter count was under 5000 before the shutter buckled .

The camera is now back in use and I could not be happier ... good luck with your repair

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That is a fantastic reply to my question ShiroKuro.

 

You have kindly provided Leicas replies to the questions I would have asked them myself ........... exactly what I wanted to know.

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply so helpfully and comprehensively.

 

Thankyou very much and best wishes to you.

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Shutter failed a few months back.I decided to have the 4000 sec shutter fitted.The difference was noticeable as already mentioned,quieter 'a real plus" smother and seems to me, far less mechanical stress placed on moving parts in that the kickback when the shutter fires is greatly reduced.

1/52 turnaround for servicing is unreal >>takes upto 3/12 round trip to N.Z. the M8 having made 3 trips so far.

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7) Can I have a Black Dot in place of the red one ? .... just kidding ,well not really ; ) No, we do not have any black dots, our logo is the red dot.

 

That's odd. So what happens if the black dot on my 8.2 gets knackered?... :confused:

 

As you can understand I never want to see a red dot on mine! :D

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A camera tech explained to me once that the top available shutter speed determines how fast the curtains (or blades if a metal FP shutter) need to travel. From there, the rest of the speeds are effected by extending the delay time between the release of the first and second curtain (or blade set) at each successively slower speed, but the curtains/blades always move at the same speed as governed by the top speed. Therefore a shutter whose top speed is 1/8000 would have curtains (or blades) moving at twice the speed of a shutter whose top speed is 1/4000, at every shutter speed, every shot. If the moving parts are of the same specification (strength, etc.) then it would seem logical that the slower shutter would get less wear-and-tear and therefore a longer life, ignoring other variables like parts defects, assembly tolerances, and accidental damage.

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  • 2 years later...

Likewise my M8 failed on me yesterday:

The camera warns, when it is set 'on':

"Attention Drive Blocked"

and then:

"Attention Shutter fault".

And there are small beeps.

The blades are all closed and the white sensor area is not visible.

 

My last picture was of a gipsy playing mandolin in Dresden. Now should I account the trouble to a bad omen in his look?

But seriously, I bumped the camera rather hard ten days earlier when I arrived for holidays in Dresden; took about 600 pictures after that without a trouble. I do not have the discrete option on by the way. I have taken about 45k shots with this camera up till now, and I am first owner. Great performer.

 

Will contact Solms on Monday.

albert

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