Using the Jobo Giga Vu Pro Evo with M8 DNG files

[4season]

There seems to be inaccurate, or conflicting information online regarding how Jobo's Giga Vu Pro Evolution (henceforth referred to as "GVPE") works with the Leica M8's DNG output. I just received mine a few days ago thought I'd share my findings.

By default, the embedded JPEG thumbnails are displayed in their original postage-stamp size. (Oddly enough, vertical format DNGs appear reversed from left to right.)



The GVPE has a setting to allow you to zoom into that thumbnail, and maybe if the M8 DNG images contained a largish embedded JPEG, it would look good. But it doesn't, so this is what you get at 2x zoom:



However, other features including levels and luminance work okay:



As of firmware v1.0.3 (latest as I write this), if you attempt to read the actual DNG image, this is what you get:



Direct USB connections to the M8 won't work because the M8 doesn't function as a USB mass storage device. I also tried it with my Nikon 100 which does have such support, and it works satisfactorily, but at about 0.75 megabytes/second, which is a far cry from the 2.5 megabytes/second I achieve if I plug the Compact Flash card directly into the GVPE's card slot. Jobo recommends using their Compact Flash adapter to accomodate other media types including SD and XD: It's out of stock at the moment at both B&H and Adorama, but appears to simply be a rebranded EagleTec adapter as sold on eBay and elsewhere.

GVPE works great if you shoot JPEG+Raw: There's a setting to ignore raw files when viewing, so you don't keep seeing the same photo twice. Strangely, this setting doesn't carry over to the slide show function, but manually deselecting the unwanted photos from the playlist is easy.

Most of you already know about photographing a white wall or blue sky in order to detect dust on the sensor. GVPE goes one step further with it's Dust Check feature by highlighting any irregularities it spots, so you can do the deed on the small, built-in screen. (JPEGs only).

So far I like it: It plays MPEG video and MP3 audio too, but the emphasis is definitely on photography, so you get a ruggedized housing, good color-calibrated screen and numerous ways to protect, examine, and backup photos (you can hook up a USB drive, among other things) or give a presentation (remote control, NTSC, PAL video, composite and DVI outputs), but not so many "consumer-type" features.

[glenerrolrd]

Doesn t the fact that the GVPE doesn t display the Raw files significantly reduce its value to .DNG users? Seems like the Leica Jpegs may not be representative of the Raw files ? Am I missing something?

[RJames]

Attached is a list of cameras that Jobo indicates that will work with their Giga Vu Pro Evo...
Jim

[4season]

Originally Posted by glenerrolrd

Doesn t the fact that the GVPE doesn t display the Raw files significantly reduce its value to .DNG users? Seems like the Leica Jpegs may not be representative of the Raw files ? Am I missing something?

You aren't likely to get a definitive view of your raw images on this or any other small storage device! But the JPEG thumbnail gives us some indication as to our overall exposure, and if anything, will suffer from clipping before our actual raw image does.

I think this is going to apply to all of these little viewer/storage devices, but when we view raw images on the GVPE, it takes a best guess at how the image should look, by basically adjusting the image to the equivalent a nice 18% grey overall. And for "average" photos, this should look okay.

But what happens if the actual exposure is nowhere near 18%? In the case of my moon photo against a black sky, it appears wildly overexposed, although the actual raw photo is fine (Nikon NEF file, viewing actual raw image):



On the other hand, the JPEG thumbnails and images are passed along more or less unmanipulated, and will give us a pretty good idea as to the actual exposure (Nikon NEF file, viewing a zoomed-in JPEG thumbnail)



This is an extreme example of why the JPEG portion of your images can be very useful, and why it might be a mistake to assume you are seeing the "truth" when you view the raw images on a small device like GVPE, however nice and color-calibrated the screen may be.

Yes, I'd like to see Jobo fully support .DNG, but even if this happens with the next firmware update, I think I'll continue to shoot Raw+JPEG Basic because it works so well here: The "basic JPEGs" look dazzling on the small screen, yet they don't waste too much disk space.

[stunsworth]

It would be nice if Leica could change the DNG to embed a large JPG file - currently their is a small one as you've discovered.

I have the same problem with iView Media Pro, it can only display the small Jpeg. If I run the DNG file through the Adobe DNG convertor (sounds illogical I know) I can specify a large imbedded Jpeg, but then C1 doesn't recognise the files.

[glenerrolrd]

Originally Posted by 4season

You aren't likely to get a definitive view of your raw images on this or any other small storage device! But the JPEG thumbnail gives us some indication as to our overall exposure, and if anything, will suffer from clipping before our actual raw image does.

I think this is going to apply to all of these little viewer/storage devices, but when we view raw images on the GVPE, it takes a best guess at how the image should look, by basically adjusting the image to the equivalent a nice 18% grey overall. And for "average" photos, this should look okay.

But what happens if the actual exposure is nowhere near 18%? In the case of my moon photo against a black sky, it appears wildly overexposed, although the actual raw photo is fine (Nikon NEF file, viewing actual raw image):



On the other hand, the JPEG thumbnails and images are passed along more or less unmanipulated, and will give us a pretty good idea as to the actual exposure (Nikon NEF file, viewing a zoomed-in JPEG thumbnail)



This is an extreme example of why the JPEG portion of your images can be very useful, and why it might be a mistake to assume you are seeing the "truth" when you view the raw images on a small device like GVPE, however nice and color-calibrated the screen may be.

Yes, I'd like to see Jobo fully support .DNG, but even if this happens with the next firmware update, I think I'll continue to shoot Raw+JPEG Basic because it works so well here: The "basic JPEGs" look dazzling on the small screen, yet they don't waste too much disk space.

The issue I am concerned about is really in the M8 where the reported Jpeg processing may be significantly different from the Raw file. I really can not use the GVPE to make any decisions while shooting. I was just hoping that I could get a approximate representation of a entire shoot . This is not the case with the Canon .CR2 files where the jpeg and the initial raw files are very close . Of course all of this depends on your expectations and requirements.....

[loretdem]

Thank you for clearing up some of the M8/GVPE info. I had thought from previous postings that the GVPE had better RAW support for the M8 than for the DMR. My experience with DMR DNG files are just like yours with M8 DNG files, except that the GVPE will zoom in and render the DMR DNG files. I'm surprised that it will not do the same with the M8. I believe there is a setting somewhere in Picture viewing or Zoom that allows you to chose either the RAW or the JPEG for zooming in. You've got to press the green-lit Settings button in the right mode to access it. If I'm right then chose RAW and the GVPE will zoom into your DNG files. It's kind of slow going and you will notice a difference between the DNG and JPEG views, but this is how I've set up my GVPE to work and I'm satisfied. Unfortunately the DMR does not offer RAW+JPEG shooting but my R-D1 does and it is a very convenient workflow with the GVPE. I like the GVPE but it has a lot of untapped potential that ought to be addressed through firmware updates. Of course the same can be said for the Leica DMR and M8, but with Leica it is mostly a matter of refining the functionality of their cameras, whereas Jobo has barely begun to scratch the surface of what the GVPE is capable of. I hope their commitment is more than just adding more camera models to the official support list.
BTW that latest pdf of Jobo's support list is not anywhere near accurate, particularly regarding Leica support. They certainly are not doing themselves any favors with Leica digital users who are interested in acquiring the GVPE.
-Carlos

[patrickw]

Today is update day!

Jobo has published an update 2.0.4 for the GVPE on their website. Now it can decode M8 DNG. The GVPE will still show the small embedded JPGs, but it can open and enlarge the DNGs. Good.

Unfortunately vertical format DNGs still appear reversed from left to right. Bad.

Patrick

[Jarno]

Anyone able to share their experience of using the Jobo Giga Vu Pro Evo with the 2.0.4 update?

Is it now the 'perfect' M8 travel companion?

[erl]

A lot depends on what and how you like to shoot I guess. The only time I use my JGVPE is when I travel, or when I am shooting an extended assignment as in exceeding my current SD card quantity. Either way, I definately never have time to be downloading and then geeking at images for correction. When I shoot, they are either right or wrong. Same as film. Most scenarios do not offer a re-shoot possibility. The sole purpose of the JGVPE for me is a dump store to clear my cards and keep shooting, sometimes for a whole month. The JGVPE's compactness, portability and ruggedness is IMHO fantastic. Viewing images on it, for me, is simply to confirm that they have successfully transferred before I format the card.

I will now download the firmware update to see if it is significantly better, but I am not really concerned. Mine does what I want anyway.

[erl]

I just remebered an important fact. When istalling firmware upgrades on the JOBO, it is important to use a CF card, ie. NO adapter + SD card. The local rep & I tore our hair out trying do the previous upgrade and discovered that it will NOT work when using a card adapter. Fortunately, I have an old Nikon D100 with CF cards so I was able to do it OK. This could save you hours of frustration.

[Jfelder2@nyc.rr.com]

Hi, I was looking for a portable viewer. Epson doesn't seem to want to support DNG files. Jobo looked interesting to me. Any update on if the recent firmware reads DNG better than the ones in the posts from early 2007? Any opinions on what the best viewer for a Leica M8 user is (Epson, Jobo, Wolverine, etc?).

Thanks!

Snapshot Artifact

[cbretteville]

Hyperdrive Colorspace seems to have a following and do support M8 DNGs - at least the thumbnails. No personal experience, but there are people here that has. HyperDrive - The World's Fastest Memory Card Backup Device

Here are some recent comments http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...olorspace.html

[dfarkas]

I wrote a review when the GVPE came out. You can check it out here:

David Farkas Photography Blog: GIGA Vu Pro Evolution - Worth the Wait?

I use the both the GVPE and the Epson P5000. I find that shooting DNG+JPEG Fine on the M8 works well for me. I'm not too concerned with color rendering, just focus and exposure. Also, nice to know I actually have copied something. Sure, I use a little more storage space and have less shots per card with the added JPEGs, but I don't mind the extra overhead.

David

[jrc]

With the cost of memory dropping so sharply (New Egg is selling Transcend 32-gig CF cards for $150) it seems to me that one reasonable option is just to buy cards, and leave the photos on the cards instead of transferring them. Use the camera itself to review.

JC

[cbretteville]

True cards are really cheap these days, I do however want a backup of my images also when out traveling. Something like a Hyperdrive gives me that. OTOH one of the tiny, cheap PCs being launched left, right and center these days may be an even better solution.

[tashley]

I like to use a portable viewer and backup device for travelling when I don't want a laptop with me. I keep the original files on SD card and back them up externally then travel with the backup device in the hold and the SD cards with me.

I trialed the Jobo GigaVu Pro on an earlier firmware version that supported M8 DNGs and it took so long to render them that the process was pointless. I swapped to an Epson P5000 and decided to shoot RAW + Peg. But now I've decided that in fact I can tell just as much from the back of the camera as I can from the screen of either device. All I need to know is, have my lenses/rangefinders gone out of whack on the journey and did the shot write to card?

What I've now decided to do is get a Macbook Air when it has a slightly larger hard drive. Then, for a weight not really much greater than the Epson, I can do review, sorting and backup. Heck I can even go the whole hog and develop the RAW file, even email it for extra backup...

t

[tom0511]

The Jobo Giga1 does copy files pretty fast, takes all kind of cards (including SDHC) and is smaller than the Vue Evolution (or extreme). It cost 1/3 of the price so if one doesnt need to review images on the display why pay so much money for the unit?

[Peter D Lux 2]

Originally Posted by tashley

What I've now decided to do is get a Macbook Air when it has a slightly larger hard drive. Then, for a weight not really much greater than the Epson, I can do review, sorting and backup. Heck I can even go the whole hog and develop the RAW file, even email it for extra backup...

My plan exactly, Tim

Seems to me this the 'future proof' way to go (for the coming 12 months...)

[Hans Roggen]

And if anyone is interested in buying a Giga Vu Pro Evo please pm me