M8 shutter fault - get Leica to repair it for free

I am currently taking legal advice on the situation which has happened to my M8 whereby I am experiencing the dreaded 'Attention - Shutter Fault' error message.

Given that many, many users have experienced this problem I think that there is sufficient grounds for proving that this is in fact a defect of the design and/or manufacture of the camera and should therefore be remedied by Leica even if it is outwith the warranty period.

I will be starting an article on my website www.TravelPhotoMag.com - Online Travel Photography Magazine; Equipment Reviews, Destination Guides, Technique Guides, Photographs, Images, Cameras, Lenses which will detail the steps that I am going to follow together with the outcome so that other Leica users who have either in the past or are now having this problem can have some way of recourse.

Frankly, I think that it is unacceptable for Leica to expect us to pay for these repairs on what is an extremely expensive piece of equipment.

Please register your interest in this thread here and PM me your e-mail address if you would like to be kept up to date with progress. It may also be worthwhile to bring together as many people who have experienced this problem so that we can prove this is in fact a recurring problem - in case Leica decide to contest this fact.

Thanks in advance for your support.

Daniel

[ECliffordSmith]

Hi Daniel,

I am sorry to hear you are having troubles with your camera.

I cannot determine from your message what Leica have actually said about your issue. Have Leica support in Solms examined the camera and issued you with a quote for repair?

I have found them to be fair in the regard in the past although not with this particular M8 issue.

Hi Ed

Here's the information I have received from Leica:

Dear Mr. Webb,
Thanks for your mail.
repair of the shutter fault will probably have costs about € 650,-/700

Seasons greetings and a Happy New Year 2010 !

Kind regards

M8 Support
Ursula Brand-Gerheim

Tel.: +49 6442 208 165
Fax: +49 6442 208 339
M8.Support@leica-camera.com

[jsrockit]

While it does appear to happen too often for such an expensive camera, and the repair cost is ridiculous, I doubt we'll be able to stop them from charging when it is out of warranty. The minilux did this back in the day and the shutter repair was only $100.

[jaapv]

Without going into the merits of the case, somehow I do not feel comfortable with the method you are using to put pressure on Leica. In this case there is European law covering "fitness for purpose" of a product. I think it would have been far better if you had gone that road before going public. At any rate I do hope you are applying best journalistic practice by allowing Leica to present their side of the story in your publications.

[Steve Ash]

You could have easily extended the warranty period by one year by sending your camera to Leica for service at the end of the warranty period. You decided not to spend this money but to take the risk. So I do not get why you claim for free of charge service and point at Leica now.

Value your own time and come to your conclusion even if it is a bitter pill to swallow.

Sorry, no support from my side
Steve

PS: I envy you for your portfolio nevertheless

[okram]

My warranty expires in a month. I can say that I have some fears about possible KNOWN malfunctions to my M8. It was serviced twice now- for malfunctions that happened with no connection to normal usage wear.(rangefinder out of alignment and shutter recock problem).

Yes, it seems that M8 has some flaws that should not be put on a customers back.
Shutter error message is one of those.

It is same sa 1.25 magnifier having badly constructed rubber ring that falls off so fast that some users here think that it is better to remove it immediately. I would like to send a bill to Leica for two right glass from my glasses, that are exchanged because of scratches from this magnifier. And they have replaced the magnifier once for free and the rubber fell of on that one too in two weeks of use.

I think Leica should show a lot flexibility about these malfunctions for people out of warranty.


M

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by Steve Ash

You could have easily extended the warranty period by one year by sending your camera to Leica for service at the end of the warranty period. You decided not to spend this money but to take the risk. So I do not get why you claim for free of charge service and point at Leica now.

In all fairness, a few years of owning a camera is nothing... Shouldn't you be able to use a camera, that you paid $5500 new for, more than a year or two without service...and more than 2-3 years without the shutter failing?

The OP's point is that it happens way too often with the M8... and at times, with not too many shots taken.

and should the OP let Leica have their say about this publically? Hell no... the are a company selling to the public who has to be able to deal with bad publicity at times.

[wattsy]

The Sale of Goods Act is likely to be your biggest friend but you will have to make the claim against the retailer not the manufacturer. It's also meant to protect consumers rather than traders so if you have been overplaying the "I'm a professional" card, the Act might not be able to help.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

In all fairness, a few years of owning a camera is nothing... Shouldn't you be able to use a camera, that you paid $5500 new for, more than a year or two without service...and more than 2-3 years without the shutter failing?

The OP's point is that it happens way too often with the M8... and at times, with not too many shots taken.

and should the OP let Leica have their say about this publically? Hell no... the are a company selling to the public who has to be able to deal with bad publicity at times.

Yeah! Right! We'll hold them down whilst you kick 'em in the groin!

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Yeah! Right! We'll hold them down whilst you kick 'em in the groin!

Haha, nah, I'm not a violent guy!

[pgk]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

In all fairness, a few years of owning a camera is nothing... Shouldn't you be able to use a camera, that you paid $5500 new for, more than a year or two without service...and more than 2-3 years without the shutter failing?

The OP's point is that it happens way too often with the M8... and at times, with not too many shots taken.

and should the OP let Leica have their say about this publically? Hell no... the are a company selling to the public who has to be able to deal with bad publicity at times.

Well, yes, a premature shutter failure would of course be of concern, but there may be a reason for this failure - an impact, excessive heat, whatever. Assuming that its simply an endemic premature failure based on the number of posts about shutter failures here is not a terribly objective view IMHO because it is the percentage of failures which would allow us to asses their significance and we cannot determine this from posts here.

Complaining publicly is also IMHO a way of letting off steam which actually achieves very little - I would be extremely doubtful if it will alter Leica's attitude one iota - I suspect that they will (quite rightly and legally) assess each shutter failure on its own merits, and there are plenty of posts here to indicate that they deal with some problems very graciously.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by pgk

and there are plenty of posts here to indicate that they deal with some problems very graciously.

Some examples?

[UliWer]

Originally Posted by PhotoWebb.co.uk

I am currently taking legal advice ...

You are entitled to do this.

Please do it in your own responsibility.

I have a M8 for more than two years now and have never seen the issue you describe.

I'd prefer not be bothered by campaigning which could cause severe legal and financial consequences for everybody involved.

[cocker]

I have had an M8 and then an M8.2 since they appeared and have had no problems and I have seen no evidence from this, or any other fora, that there is a fundamental design or manufacturing problem of this kind. I don't support your post and suggest a dialogue with Leica might have been more productive. This kind of crude "consumerism" doesn't appeal to me.

[delander]

There have been quite a lot of shutter faults reported here and when in warranty I'm sure they have been repaired FOC by Leica.

I can understand that having paid £3000 for an M8 and assuming that the shutter fault is not a result of misuse that the OP does feel somewhat agrieved.

Having paid this sum of money it may be that a court would rule that the shutter should reasonably be expected to last more than 2 years.

Most consumers give up before going to court under the sale of goods act, if this case did go to court I for one would be interested in the result.

Jeff

[pgk]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Some examples?

Well for a start: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ice-leica.html

Googling shutterlife produces some interesting information although it has to be read carefully as sample sizes are not always big and, as ever, those with failed shutters are probably more interested in telling the world than those whose shutters still operate.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by pgk

Well for a start: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ice-leica.html

Googling shutterlife produces some interesting information although it has to be read carefully as sample sizes are not always big and, as ever, those with failed shutters are probably more interested in telling the world than those whose shutters still operate.

Well, doesn't this sound more like what Leica is supposed to do? The dealer paid to have the CCD replaced and Leica gave the camera a once over... as they should if they are giving a 1 year warranty after the work. Now, if Leica did everything for free, without charging the user or dealer, than we'd have a story.

Thanks everyone for your responses so far - it's good to see everyone's points of view.

Just to be clear on a few things:

Had the camera fault been caused by some negligence on my part, of course, I would not expect Leica to foot the bill for repair.

Due to the fact that this fault is appearing time and time again I do think that Leica should remedy it free of charge. There is clearly a problem with the camera which, although not appearing on every camera, is appearing enough for me to think this. You only have to come into this forum to see that there's almost always a thread running on the front page related to this issue.

Leica markets the M8 as a camera for a lifetime and in many user's cases, including mine, this has proven not to be the case. My camera has been very well cared for and has not been used excessively (probably only 10,000 shutter actuations if I was to guess).

The intention of posting here was to help other people who might be in the same predicament as me perhaps get a better outcome than having to shell out half the value of the camera on a repair when it is fairly early in it's life.

There are many reasons why one might not be happy with an M8, the camera is riddled with little bugs which are quite irritating. The only reason we all put up with them is because we like using a rangefinder and we want to shoot with Leica lenses in digital - there isn't a lot of choice out there in this market. Leica shouldn't be let off the hook though simply because we love their products - they should be expected to put things right if they have made a mistake.

I know that there are many, many M8 cameras out there that are operating perfectly fine but if we are honest we all know that there are many cameras out there that are not functioning as they should. I have been unfortunate to be one of the people who is currently having a bad experience.

I hope this helps some of the people who disagree with what I am doing see it from another perspective. I sincerely believe that openness and honesty is a virtue, I am merely sharing my experience with others.

Daniel

[shootinglulu]

If this shutter weakness is a recognised achilles heal on the M8 then Leica should do the honorable thing and repair, free of charge, this very expensive, fairly new camera. Imo