How to protect my gear from condensation?

[BjarniM]

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I'm about to start a project where i will use my Leica gear (M6 and a 35 mm ASPH Summicron) extensively each and every day under different circumstances and changing weather conditions for a half year or so.

 

I'm not anal about my equipment since it's been bought to use. I just want to protect it in the best way, since it's gonna be exposed to heavy use. I'm gonna try to minimize the use in heavy rain and snow.

 

The one thing, i'm most concerned about is how it's gonna react and cope with changing weather conditions, changing humidity and changing temperature, which i imagine could result in condensation.

 

How can i protect it from condensation, on days where it's travelling in and out, from - let's say - minus 5 or plus 10 degrees Celsius, with a humidity over 80%, and inside to plus 20 degrees Celsius, and the other way around several times each day?

 

Yes, it's gonna be protected in a bag under the most severe conditions, but my concern is condensation, as a result from changing temperatures and changing humidity.

Edited December 21, 2014 by BjarniM

[Firefly]

Not sure if this is applicable but when I was young I had an electric guitar which had a hard case, the advice from both the dealer and the written instructions was if you were coming into a warm room from the cold then rather than opening the case wide just crack it open and leave it a while to get to the rooms temperature. In respect of a guitar this was to also prevent warping as well as to prevent condensation getting into the electronics but I would think it would help with a camera as well. Remember the cold will drain batteries quicker as well, cheers Rob

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[BjarniM]

Anyone else in the forum got any good advice?

[250swb]

It would take an awful lot of abuse to make the seasoned wood of a guitar warp. I would have thought the advice was most likely given to prevent 'checking' where the nitro cellulose lacquer expands and contracts quickly leaving a crazy paving type pattern in the finish. It is one of the things you would expect to see on an old guitar that has gone from a hot concert hall straight into the van on a cold night.

 

As far as cameras are concerned hot hands and warm bodies cause most condensation, but leaving it in the bag can help. Certainly don't try to shield it with a hand but wipe off any water with an absorbent cloth, and if outdoors have it on the outside of a coat not under a coat.

 

Steve

[Firefly]

A quick google of "Gibson guitar warping" brings up all the articles you need about warping caused by temperature and humidity changes, I do wonder why I bother with this forum and it's experts sometimes

[pgk]

Anyone else in the forum got any good advice?

"Good' depends on your circumstances, but have a look at another post of mine: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/356374-simple-cheap-fairly-elegant-dry-storage.html which gives one of my solutions to cameras and damp.

 

But the real trick to minimise condensation is to reduce the humidity within the camera, so when its not in use try to keep it as dry as you can. If there is low humidity inside the camera then you will get little condensation. Also, as you say, condensation occurs when you move into a humid environment and the camera is still cold, so allowing it to warm up slowly is a good idea. Here my solution is to use Leica's neoprene case so in high humidity changes I will put the camera in its neoprene case inside a 'dry bag' until it has warmed up - the neoprene insulates it to some extent and allows it to warm up more slowly. I really like the neoprene cases but there have been posts about them retaining damp so if you use one it too needs to be kept dry/dried out as much as practical.

 

I've found the case/dry bag solution to be very useful when operating on boats - outside is often wet and cold and inside can be both warm and extremely humid, so just taking a cold camera straight inside is not really a good idea. Sometimes of course a rapid change in conditions is inevitable and if my cameras have been subjected to rapid changes, they are then dried out overnight with silica gel as in my other post - its a cautious approach but one cannot have one's cameras fail if there is a reasonably easy, preventative solution IMO.

 

FWIW I have watched a Canon 1D (original) so condensed up internally that it actually stopped working - but was revived by being left on top of a radiator overnight! Not sure I'd really want to risk my cameras this way but if there is no other solution it has worked this once to my knowledge

[BjarniM]

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Thanks for useful info, pgk.

[Herr Barnack]

When going from a cold environment to a warm environment, it is important to not be in a hurry to whip out your camera. Let it sit in the camera bag for 2-3 hours with the zipper or other closure unzipped but with the lid/flap/top/whatever closed so it can warm up slowly.

 

Also - get a couple of these Pelican Silica Gel 1500-500-000 B&H Photo Video to put in with your camera and lens. Wrap them in a cotton handkerchief and secure it with a rubber band so they don't scratch the crap out of your camera.

 

The best protection would be to put your camera/lens into two gallon size ziploc freezer bags - one inside the other - along with the silica dryer packs while you are out in the cold. Squeeze the bags tight around the camera, to get as much air out as possible, zip the bag shut and put it in your camera bag. When you go into the warm indoors environment, unzip your camera bag and let the contents warm up gradually (see above).

 

Hope this helps...

[250swb]

I do wonder why I bother with this forum and it's experts sometimes

 

Guitars warp because of the wood drying out, that is why you can buy humidifiers to keep them 'humid'. With 80% humidity it is unlikely that the wood in the OP's Leica M6 will dry out, so the question of humidity is about it steaming up, not his M6 warping.

 

Steve

[pop]

....When you go into the warm indoors environment, unzip your camera bag and let the contents warm up gradually (see above).

 

Condensation forms when warm moist air comes into contact with a cold body. It forms on your spectacles when they're cold and you enter a heated room, possibly with many people contributing to the moisture in its air.

 

Hence, you should keep the ziplock bag closed until your camera has reached about room temperature. Opening it before that, you'd admit the warm moist air of the room to the ice cold camera. The ziplock bag should, of course, contain as little air as possible, because air insulates: it slows the warming of your camera.

[Firefly]

Guitars warp because of the wood drying out, that is why you can buy humidifiers to keep them 'humid'. With 80% humidity it is unlikely that the wood in the OP's Leica M6 will dry out, so the question of humidity is about it steaming up, not his M6 warping.

 

Steve

 

Try reading my original post on it, no one mentions wood in a M6 but as you want to try and be so clever clever your problem not mine. The point is letting the warmth in gently helps to prevent the build up of condensation and I use the analogy with the warping of guitars and the prevention of condensation getting into the electrics but you obviously know more than everyone else, interesting that you choose to poo poo my advice before offering any yourself, speaks volumes

Edited December 22, 2014 by Firefly

[pico]

When going from a cold environment to a warm environment, it is important to not be in a hurry to whip out your camera. Let it sit in the camera bag for 2-3 hours with the zipper or other closure unzipped but with the lid/flap/top/whatever closed so it can warm up slowly.

 

So much for the urban spot-news photographer.

.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello BjarniM,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Philipp's advice in Post #10 above is accurate.

 

Pico's observations just above this Post remind us that sometimes what is preferable is not always possible.

 

The problems that will generally be most significant with film cameras in cold weather are usually not simply the ones related to the inconvieniences brought about by external condensation such as condensation on a front lens element.

 

They have to do with complexities both externally & internally.

 

When you take a camera out into the cold the entire camera, lens & film all get equally cold all throughout. Both inside & outside of the camera body, the lens & the film cartridge & film.

 

When you come inside where it is warmer the moisture in the air saturates the camera, the lens, the film cartridge & film leaving water droplets all over everything inside, as well as on the surface.

 

In order to prevent this from happening:

 

BEFORE coming in from the cold you should put the cold camera, etc in a plastic bag & close the bag tightly after squeezing out as much air as is possible.

 

Then, I would personally leave this bag unopened at room temperature for at least 2 hours (Or, until everything has warmed throughout.) to allow the camera, etc to equalize all of the way thru. This allows all of the condensation to accumulate on the OUTSIDE of the plastic bag. Sometimes circumstance does not allow for this. Please see Pico's Post just above.

 

One way to deal with the issue of internal condensation when circumstances allow is: To wear your camera under your coat & next to you directly. This will keep it warmer.

 

Only take it out at short intervals to use & then replace it under your coat.

 

By the way: The necessity to use your camera under adverse conditions does not keep you from treating your equipment correctly & respectfully when you are inbetween assignments.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited December 22, 2014 by Michael Geschlecht

[250swb]

interesting that you choose to poo poo my advice before offering any yourself, speaks volumes

 

I don't know how you normally communicate but conversations proceed by context, what went before and then what's comes after, and a thread is an open conversation. As such we need to try and understand where 'warping guitars' may have come from as indeed it was not mentioned by the OP, nor does an M6 contain any significant amount of wood, unless it is a Chinese copy.

 

Steve

[Firefly]

I don't know how you normally communicate but conversations proceed by context, what went before and then what's comes after, and a thread is an open conversation. As such we need to try and understand where 'warping guitars' may have come from as indeed it was not mentioned by the OP, nor does an M6 contain any significant amount of wood, unless it is a Chinese copy.

 

Steve

Looks like Santa has bought me my very own Troll for Christmas

[pop]

Provocations by others are no justification for own aggressive behaviour

 

So, please.

[BjarniM]

Thanks for your input and help.

 

Just one question, to make sure i do understand you right, so i'm not missing the whole point here.

 

In my mind it's more logical that the equipment should not be in an airtight bag, so the equipment can "breathe" and the moisture doesn't get caught inside the airtight bag.

 

But if i understand you guys right, this will not be an issue, though?

Edited December 23, 2014 by BjarniM

[pgk]

In my mind it's more logical that the equipment should not be in an airtight bag, so the equipment can "breathe" and the moisture doesn't get caught inside the airtight bag.

If you put your equipment inside an 'airtight/waterproof' container of any description you will need a dessicant inside the container with it to remove any damp/moisture within the container. Doing so will stop the moisture affecting the equipment. Simple as that.

 

In my previous post I referred to a 'dry' bag which is a waterproof bag into which I put the camera - I use silica gel dessicant to ensure that the interior of the 'dry' bag stays dry.

[pop]

Thanks for your input and help.

 

Just one question, to make sure i do understand you right, so i'm not missing the whole point here.

 

In my mind it's more logical that the equipment should not be in an airtight bag, so the equipment can "breathe" and the moisture doesn't get caught inside the airtight bag.

 

But if i understand you guys right, this will not be an issue, though?

 

Depends.

 

Bringing it in from the cold would suggest using an airtight bag to keep the moisture out. Storing it is an altogether different business and depends on both the temperature and the humidity prevailing in the room where you store it.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[too old to care]

My opinion on this. I spent my entire 45 year career traveling, much of it overseas. During those years I used two camera as my travel cameras, a Pentax Spotmatic that I bought in Thailand in the 60's, and a Rollei 35SE I bought just before an assignment in Israel in 1983. The Spotmatic is gone now, but the Rollie is still going strong and is now my motorcycle camera.

 

I used those cameras as they were intended, that is, in all types of weather. If it was raining I would protect them the best I could, and dry them off once inside. If I was near saltwater, I would wipe them down with a damp towel before drying them.

 

I always kept a filter on the lens to protect it from dust and condensation. I never opened them up to change the film until the camera had stabilized temperatures. I also never opened a film canister until it had also stabilized.

 

Over those years the Pentax was serviced one time by a qualified camera repairman, the Rollei only by me. I never had any trouble with corrosion, fungus, and neither camera ever failed me.

 

The cameras were designed to be used inside and outside. We should protect them, but they are tools and will give us years of service if we take reasonable care of them.

 

I am retired now, but I often take my M6 and 501C outside, hiking in the woods during showers or snow storms. They receive the same care that my Pentax and Rollei got, that is, wipe them down when done and store them in a dry place.

 

Wayne