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M7 or MP?


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Greetings all,

I am new to this forum and I am new to the Leica world. I have been a faithful user of Nikon film and digital cameras for the last 25 years. I still shoot about 30 rolls of films per year (I develop monochrome and outsource slides; I scan films to digital). I shoot films mostly with my Nikon F3 and Nikon F5; sometimes with a Nikkormat FT3, built like a tank.

I'm now ready for something different! I'm considering buying either a used M7 or MP. I'm trying to understand core differences between the two and I'm struggling! Can anyone help me get the straight facts? This may have been discussed in the past but I haven't found the thread.

Thanks in advance for your help!

--JM

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M7 is a semi automatic camera with aperture priority in addition to full manual and an electronically controlled shutter. The MP is completely manual and can be used without batteries. Check http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-MP for more details on both cameras.

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As Simon has said the M7 has an auto exposure setting which can be useful if the sorts of things you photograph require quick decisions, it also has a crank rewind so is a bit quicker to change film. But if the battery fails you get only two 'emergency' manual shutter speeds.

 

The MP is fully manual, it has a meter, but if the battery fails it only stops the meter working. The design harks back to the M3 and M2 cameras and the knob rewind is a bit slower but still fast enough most of the time.

 

So the M7 is closer in spirit to your F3 while the MP is closer to your Nikkormat but that is a very tentative connection, you could choose based on which you like the look of most, or on the types of things you photography, ultimately though the photographs that either produce will look the same.

 

Steve

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I think the Wiki is useful for these kinds of questions since it links to past discussions in the forum.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M7

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/MP

 

Another difference that is often pointed out is that the M7 uses the larger shutter speed dial which also turns the opposite direction of the MP's smaller dial. It's a question of preference which dial one, well, prefers. Many photographers, me included, have cameras with both types of dial and switch between them without any problem at all.

 

I think it can be said that from a pure user-friendliness perspective, however, the M7's dial has advantages because it turns in the direction indicated by the light meter's arrows; in other words if you see o < you know that turning the dial or the aperture ring (on most M lenses; usually not on screwmount lenses) to the left will give you accurate exposure. The MP's dial goes the other way so you'd have to turn to the right. It's not rocket science.

 

The fact that the M7's dial is larger means that it is usually easier to turn with the tip of the right hand's index finger. Both types of dials become easier to turn with use, of course. But even on a well-used camera, like my M4, the dial is more difficult to turn, simply since it is a smaller dial, than the larger dial. Again, a question of preference and not something worth agonising over.

 

Good luck

Philip

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All of the above but from a personal point of view, I found the M7 a dream to use. Very fast and accurate but........I never could cozy up to all the electronics. Somehow the unit had a vulnerable feeling to it. It could only be experienced by a veteran Leica fan boy, me thinks. The MP is solid as a rock in every way. As it turns out, a good M6 with a CLA for a fraction of the cost provides me a close enough MP experience.:D

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hm, well, no MP here, but an M4 and M7.

When shooting Black&White I often grab the M4 with a hand held meter (which with the MP you don't need that much due to the MPs meter), but when on vacation, I like shooting slides, where the M7s accurate electronic shutter and semi-spot meter are simply the better solution, due to exposure latitude.

 

for C41 and B&W film...I could do without Aperture priority (and I did for a long time when I only had the M4), but for slides and more sensitive C41 films like Ektar, the effortless spot-on exposures the M7 provides trump manual mode for me.

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A body is a body. Unless you want a brand new body, I would suggest the M7. it'll be cheaper, plain and simple.

 

The lenses will be much more important than what body you put a roll of film through. Save the extra cash by buying the M7 and buying and extra lens, or have a brand new body and less money for lenses?

 

Personally, I would buy the cheaper body.

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Thank you all for taking the time to help me. As it stands, I am leaning toward buying a used M7 and a couple of used lenses; probably Summicron 28mm f:2 and 50mm f:2.

That's already quite a big chunk of money; anything beyond will get me closer to a divorce :eek:

--JM

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JM, I agree with all comments above.

 

Now look at these threads and when you have some pictures, thanks to post in "film" thread :)

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m7-mp-film-m/345620-i-love-my-m7.html

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/345543-my-new-companion.html

 

and some pictures entirely shooting with M7 last august :

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/286747-i-like-film-open-thread-64.html

for lens , take a Leica lens if you can !

Regards

Henry

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I've owned and used Leicas since 1968, and still use M3,4,5,6, &9. However, when I considered an M7 I found a used Zeiss Ikon ZM, and liked it better. I prefer its viewfinder to any of my Leica's. Takes all the same lenses, and results are excellent. Features are very close to the M7.

So if funds are an issue you might try to find one.

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I agree with Tom. With my aging eyesight, I found the viewfinder in the ZI to be far superior to that in any Leica M. I had to find a substitute. for my M7 due to eyesight

The ZI has Individual frame lines for 35 and 50mm, The 28mm has an 85mm frame line also. Shutter speed to 1/2000, but no TTL for flash. Very sweet and crisp shutter release. Accepts all Leica M lenses as well as the Zeiss and Voightlander M Mount lenses. Diopter correction lenses available.

 

Not sorry I had to switch.

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Hello JM,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

The 2 cameras you are considering are probably 90% or more pretty much the same in operation. The question you have asked is more or less the same as asking: What are thr differences in handling an F2 as oppposed to handling an F3?

 

One difference between the Nikons & the Leicas is that an MP & an M7 share more PHYSICAL components than an F2 & an F3.

 

Operationally the comparison pretty much holds.

 

By the way: Please note that a portion of the minutiae above, which many of us (Including me) enjoy, is that it is similar in Nikonese to people discussing the various iterations of an FM (Including special editions) or the utility value of various focussing screens or meter prisms.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

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When I switched from M7 to MP long time ago one thing I noticed that is not mentioned frequently is that the MP is physically smaller. It is shorter by approximately 2mm. That doesn't sound like a lot but it is (to me) immediately pleasantly noticeable when you hold the camera. The MP is basically the same size as the M3/2/4/6, while the M7 is the size of the M6TTL.

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size, zen,gestalt,mechanical, electronic, forget it -- here it is -- do you want a high-end film camera that can act as a point and shoot except for focus (M7) or do you want a high-end film that can't. This isn't a right or wrong or good or bad, this is simply you being honest with yourself. Would you enjoy a camera that when you see something you can't just focus and shoot or one where you must manually set the exposure. Yes, with time, you will know the light and preset things and hyperfocal focus and all that -- but do you want to be forced (key word is forced because you can shoot the M7 like it is an MP) to take the time to learn? Answer this question for yourself first -- then the answer of which camera to buy becomes readily apparent.

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I had an MP and an M7 at the same time. If I decided to use one camera, it was always the M7 because of the automatic exposure. However, when I decided to sell one, I sold the M7 and kept the MP. Feel, depreciation reliability, 5 year warranty, absence of electronics and ready to go at all times were my reasons.

 

Maybe an important and little known fact that could be useful to you: the M7 started life with a viewfinder that was subject to flare in certain conditions. At a point, the M7 was upgraded with the much better MP viewfinder. The upgrade was not recorded by serial number, but it was clear from the box whether ther the VF was updated. The box for the updated camera has a 3 inch wrap around orange band on the box that makes it clear it has the upgraded VF. This was only used for the upgraded cameras.

 

There was also a change in the DX system where early models had brass sensors. These occasionally gave problems and were replaced by optical sensors. Leica replaced the sensors free of charge for a long time and I suspect they still would.

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At one time I owned a pair of M7's, found I rarely ever used auto exposure. So I went to a pair of MP's. Immediately bought the add-on rewind cranks because the knobs were just too slow. Eventually sold the MP's and bought 2 like-new M6 classics with the proceeds from one MP and had change left over. Functionally they worked exactly like the MP+rewind crank accessory. When I got an M8 I sold the 2 M6's. Have since gone to M9 and now M240. All the time I have still kept my original pair of M4's, which I decided were the M's I liked best of all. Smoother operating feel and nicer finish than the MP's, with the same level of viewfinder clarity (no white-out), plus a self timer. The only thing it lacks is a hot shoe, which requires me using an adaptor with flashes that don't have a PC cord outlet. But it raises the flash up almost an inch which helps against red eye. For metering I use MR4's usually because they couple to the shutter dial, but in practice a handheld meter isn't all that much slower. With a built-in I tend to meter every shot whereas with a handheld I only re-meter if the light has changed more than I feel confident to estimate.

Edited by bocaburger
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If it were me, I would get the MP. There is much to be said for the MP's 100% mechanical design in terms of reliability. Oh, wait: I used to have an MP till I traded it in on my M240. I always liked my MP, but needed the M240, hence the trade.

 

Or you could get a nice used M4-P and a hand meter and have enough cash left over to get another M lens. My M4-P is at least as reliable and sturdy as a new MP and has kept me from pining for my dearly departed MP.

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By the way: Please note that a portion of the minutiae above, which many of us (Including me) enjoy, is that it is similar in Nikonese to people discussing the various iterations of an FM (Including special editions) or the utility value of various focussing screens or meter prisms.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Michael: Thanks! Putting things in perspective (the "FM Landscape") is at least for me very helpful. My dilemma here (thus the reason for joining this forum and asking the question to faithful Leica users) is of course the amount of money involved. I could buy a mint FM, FM2 and FM10 each of them with 28 and 50mm lenses for less than the price of a good M7 body -and I'm not including any glass! I am certainly not arguing about the quality, durability, value for the money or benefit of each respective camera. I have passed that point already! I am however trying to leverage the hands on experience of users on this forum to verify if my features and benefits is correct. Thanks again,

--JM

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