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Most ergonomic shutter speed dial: M6, M6 TTL, M7, or MP?


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Here’s my question: of the M6, M6 TTL, M7 and MP, how much do the differences in the shutter speed dial affect your ability to quickly and intuitively operate the camera?

 

This is an important consideration for me as I weigh a used M6 or M6 TTL against a used or new M7 or MP.

 

Here are my impressions of the shutter speed dial differences:

 

  • M6 and MP: Small diameter dial, which seems cumbersome to move with your index finger alone. However, the hard stop at 1000 gives you a reference point without needing to look at the dial.
     
  • M6 TTL: Large diameter dial that reaches the edge of the camera body. This seems to facilitate quicker adjustments with your index finger. Also has the hard stop like the M6 and MP.
     
  • M7: Large dial, but it has additional positions (Auto, 2s, 4s). A firmer detent at the Auto position compared to each shutter setting, but no hard stop limitation (that is, you can rotate it in circles freely).

I rented an M7 for a day, and I found it cumbersome to shoot in manual mode because I never really knew where the dial was without taking the camera down to look. It rotates freely and has more positions, which made it hard to quickly and intuitively get to a proper exposure while holding the camera to my eye.

 

When I returned the M7 I played with an M6 TTL in the store, which seems to have the best shutter speed dial design. It has the larger dial, and a hard stop at 1000, but fewer positions than the M7. This seemed to facilitate quicker and more ergonomic rotation (fewer positions and large dial) while providing a helpful physical reference point (the hard stop at 1000).

 

I have not used an M6 or MP, but my concern is that the smaller diameter dial would be harder to rotate quickly with one finger. The MP is appealing as the ultimate mechanical M, but I hesitate about paying so much for a body with a shutter speed dial design that is more about consistency with the M3 than with being ergonomic.

 

So what are your thoughts? I hope to hear from people who have found any of these shutter dial designs to be great, not so great, or somewhere in between.

 

PS. I am new to Leica, so I don’t have an ingrained habit in terms of shutter speed dial rotation direction.

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I'm new to Leica as well and have not used an M7 or TTL but to me the M6 small dial is definitely a bit cumbersome to do with one finger. You also have to have the film advance lever out a little bit to turn it with 2 fingers. You do however have to take it down to know where it is set as there is no number display in the VF like the new ones have.

 

I've found that I tend to mostly pre-choose an appropriate shutter speed and dial in individual shots with the aperture dial, which is inverse of how I mostly used my DSLR but it works.

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PS. I am new to Leica, so I don’t have an ingrained habit in terms of shutter speed dial rotation direction.

 

I owned all except the MP, and became equally comfortable with each model after sufficient use.

 

Some users of older film Ms, though, find the M6TTL and M7 dial rotation awkward, as both are 'backwards' compared to prior models. The counter-argument by some is that this change made the rotation more consistent with the direction of the meter arrows. And the M7 is thus considered to be the more 'automated' natural successor to the M6TTL. (The MP reverted to the more 'traditional' rotation.)

 

These are personal preferences. I liked them all over time.

 

Jeff

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I own and use M6, M6 TTL and M7. Each were acquired for different reasons.

 

If I had to keep only one, it would be the M7.

reason: The dial, as you have observed, is larger and rotates the 'right' way (older aficionado's need not comment here ;) ) but is not important. The M7 can be used to work exactly like an M6 if you desire, but has the ability to work with 'auto' shutter speed. ie. work your aperture manually and let the camera match the shutter speed for you, or just set the aperture and 'point and shoot'. As your post implies a desire for speed of work I suggest you will find this function very useful. The down side is that the M7 body is several mm taller than the classic M6. AS you have no real experience of this it will probably not be an issue.

 

Verdict: Get the M7. :D

 

P.S. all are great to use in their own way.

 

P.P.S. the MP has a painfully slow rewind mechanism, if that is of concern. Pretty camera though.

Edited by erl
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I know it is not on your list, but the M5 has a dial designed to be moved with your index finder and is co-axial with the shutter release which means that you can move from one to the other with a small intuitive movement.

 

Also, you never need to take the camera from your eye to check the shutter speed when using an M5: it displays the shutter speed in the viewfinder.

 

Finally, note that the M5 has an analogue exposure scale. You can see at a glance (once familiar with it) if you are 2 stops (or whatever) off the metered reading. On the others once you are more than 0.5 of a stop from the metered reading you have no idea how many stops away you are from reading the viewfinder indicators.

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Addendum: The M7 also can work as the M5, if you set it accordingly.

 

As for speed of reading without taking your eye from the VF; if that becomes critical (it can) then probably you will be better served by the 'Auto' setting on an M7 which WILL cope with rapidly changing light scenarios (they happen often also).

 

Don't bog down in too much pre-analayzing as you may frighten yourself off. All of the above cameras are very serviceable and you will adjust to whichever you find.

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I opened this post because I wasn't really sure what an "ergonomic" shutter speed dial was...how, or even why, you would consider that setting a thing worthy of that adjective

 

Now I've read that (some) of you are new to Leica, and may also be new to film...which leads me to my point:

 

Film has about an -2 to +2 range from spot-on exposure that allows you to take some liberties with your exposure settings. It isn't necessary to reset either speed or aperture with every snap. Let the latitude inherent to the film medium work for you.

 

When I go out shooting I set exposure once, and then start taking shots with only one parameter that I must set: focusing the lens. If the sun goes behind a cloud I don't worry about it...the film will forgive if I'm slightly underexposed. If I walk I walk from the shady side of the street to the sunny, I don't worry about it...just keep on snapping and let the film help you out.

 

I don't know which camera has the "most ergonomic" dials on top. I do know I have small hands and rotating the speed dial on my MP is really hard to do while I'm composing a shot and trying to focus the lens is impossible to do if I'm fiddling with the speed dial.

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Film has about an -2 to +2 range from spot-on exposure that allows you to take some liberties with your exposure settings. It isn't necessary to reset either speed or aperture with every snap…..

 

Depends of course on the type of film. I have done virtually all my film work using transparency and couldn't take such a laissez-faire approach to exposure.

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Just one other comment, and this is not to belittle what anyone has said about the cameras: if you are worried about rewind speed then the MP is not the right camera for you

 

One of the joys of taking pictures, for me, is that contemplative moment when the roll is done and I pull up the rewind knob and manually rewind my shots and enjoy where-ever it is that I happen to be at the moment

 

Photographing with the MP is more of a zen thing than an efficient film-exposing process...it has to be done slowly and carefully and with love for each click of the shutter...

 

...and turn of the crank

 

:)

 

Just my two cents, but I don't think many of the folks that posted to the "I love my MP" thread would disagree

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Depends of course on the type of film. I have done virtually all my film work using transparency and couldn't take such a laissez-faire approach to exposure.

 

Yes, and that's why I said "with every snap"

 

Transparency (slide) film, like digital, has less lattitude than print film--you have to fine tune it to a greater degree

 

Same as you have to change the exposure with print film when you go from outdoors inside and vice versa

 

The point I'm making to these gentlemen is they don't need to reset exposure with every snap, they can use some of the attributes of the medium to make their photography less cumbersome, worrisome and tiring

 

Peace, out

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I have the M6TTL Millennium which also has an M3 rewind. I don't find it much slower than my M4. In fact, the fact that the M4's angled rewind invites to rewinding faster often means (for me) that I slip. The actual time difference rewinding a 36 roll is basically negligible for almost all situations.

 

About the shutter speed dial. My M4 is very smooth generally and I am able to adjust its smaller dial with the index finger. But I find it difficult to do so with gloves on because the dial is more in the middle of the top plate. The dial will become smoother with use, but it may take some time. I believe Leica can also adjust it if you like. My old M3, which was a mint condition camera that had not been used much, had a quite tough to rotate dial and I found it frustrating.

 

The larger dial on the TTL is in my view much easier to use, also with gloves. What I like about the TTL's dial is also that the distance between the 60-50 and 50-30 positions is shorter, which means that I can feel when I move to the slower speeds. I don't know if the M7's dial is like this, I should add.

 

The fact that the TTL's dial (like the M7's) moves in the same direction as the meter arrows in the VF is, in my view, really helpful, especially as the direction also corresponds to the direction of the aperture ring on most M lenses. Such a lens-camera combo becomes very intuitive, indeed.

 

Much is made about the 2mm taller body of the TTL vs the M6 classic, the MP and other Ms. I don't find it problematic at all, though it is a difference I can feel if I compare my M4 and the TTL. In fact, if one has slightly larger hands the bigger form factor of the TTL is quite pleasant. But in any event, 2mm is 2mm, ie not much.

 

Good luck

Philip

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Here’s my question: of the M6, M6 TTL, M7 and MP, how much do the differences in the shutter speed dial affect your ability to quickly and intuitively operate the camera?

 

This is an important consideration for me as I weigh a used M6 or M6 TTL against a used or new M7 or MP.

 

 

Don't worry about this point at all. Whichever model you choose you will adapt very easily to operating the shutter dial, I can honestly say its never been something that I have thought about or had problems in use with.

 

More of a consideration for you should be the choice between the auto M7 or fully mechanical M6/MP. Apart from the auto function (and dependence on batteries for most shutter speeds) there is little between them in other respects.

 

Personally I'd choose the MP.

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...I graduated from the M6 to the MP and found that it takes quite a while to 'break in' these cameras (~150 to 200 rolls of film, in my case). To date, I have had no issues whatsoever with the size or positioning of the shutter speed dial. Tactile shutter speed selection is a doddle - I just count when necessary.

 

Incidentally, I take the view that no one camera (or indeed, lens) is perfect and just get on with it.

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I've been using Ms for 49 years, and one might think that the ergonomics are burned into my habits, however switching between M9, M7, M4 and M2 is no problem. Don't get into analysis-paralysis. There are more important choices to be made than the rotation of the shutter speed dial.

 

Aside: I used a hand-held meter until getting the first M7, and I am so impressed with its accuracy and consistency I bought a second.

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IMO Leica M5' has the best shutter dial ergonomic. But it is very difficult to find a clean M5 with a working meter.

The second best user Leica is any of the latest M7, with it's modern viewfinder from the MP series.

==

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I have an M6 Classic and an M4-2; I'm 6'5" with fairly large hands/fingers... I find the smaller shutter speed dial of those cameras to be no problem at all, as I can run my finger along the right side of the dial and move it as necessary.

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I went from M8 to M6 and now to M7 (still own all three for the time being). The direction of the dial was only an issue for a short time, a much bigger issue was that I need 2 fingers minimum to adjust the dial on the M6. A very nice point with the M7 and digital models in A mode is that one can scan around a scene and pick off different exposure values in the scene very quickly by watching the shutter speed change, maybe for some this doesn't matter but I got so used to it with the M8 I found myself a bit lost with the M6 as once 1/2 a stop out your effectively lost just looking at an arrow and having to tweak dials. I have heard some say chasing the arrows in the finder, I didn't get it that bad but did quickly learn it just wasn't practical to try using it like I did with the M8 and can with the M7.

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Addendum: The M7 also can work as the M5, if you set it accordingly.

 

That is interesting. I imagine you are referring to the last of my three points? I read the following about the M7 from LEICA:

 

LED light balance with two triangular LEDs and a central circular LED to adjust the exposure (for manual setting only):

 

> Underexposure of at least one stop

>* Underexposure of 1 ⁄ 2 stop

* Correct exposure

*< Overexposure of 1 ⁄ 2 stop

< Overexposure of at least one stop

 

Triangular LEDs give the required direction to rotate the aperture dial and the shutter speed dial to adjust the exposure. The LEDs flash to warn that the brightness reading is above or below the metering range.

How can this be used to immediately see how many stops (beyond 0.5) one is from the metered reading? Just curious. On the M5 you can see it immediately because the needle is displaced along the analogue scale, no need to do any action other than look.

Edited by 105012
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